We have to stop this sort of thing happening

[Bank007]

Hi

I have a bankruptcy hearing on Monday which was adjourned from May. It is from a failed IVA and I was wondering if anyone can help with the issues below:

1. It is a failed IVA

However, the original IVA was for 700 / per month. One of the creditors wanted a car payment included so it was suppossed to go up by 1200/month. When I couldn't make this payment the IP told me they would make a variation... it never happened I found out later. This means that each annual creditors meeting was a fraud (they sent letters to myself and the creditoirs saying the payment was 500/month)... Is there something legally I can bring up with the Judge?

Lawyers are a waste of time because they all want 5000k up front...

2. The company I work for has repeatedloy offerred to pay the balance of 12000 (I have paid 30k out of 42000 of the original IVA, but stopped paying when the IP told me that unless the full 130k was paid, inculding the car payment, they would bankrupt me?)

They have now made an offer of 35k to pay it off....no one seems interested...how do I get the judge to listen to reason on this?

The Petition is also incorrect, wrong address, wrong employment, wrong domicile and wrong amount owed..... Surely there is some legal thing I could put forward...this whole thing has been a farce from begining to end....

[catullus]

reading between the lines a certificate of default has been issued and the supervisor has petitioned for your bankruptcy.

if that is the case then, in law, there is no going back, the IVA cannot be restored, and you should prepare to be made bankrupt.

Although I have attended very few bankruptcy hearings I suspect that the judge won't be very interested in your story because, in law, it is actually irrelevent to his decision.

You make a number of quite serious allegations about the IP which, if borne out, could put him in serious trouble with his regulatory body although I have to say that there are one or two parts of your story that don't sound right.

For instance, a variation meeting doesn't happen independent of the person in an IVA. You have to agree to the paperwork, you have to agree to be available for the creditors meeting and you receive minutes of the meeting.

You should also have received copies of the annual reports so anything incorrect in it you should have noticed and drawn to the attention of the IP.

There's probably more to all of this but on the facts that you have presented that's the position

[Bank007]

Hi

As soon as I was aware of the fact that the car payment variation had not been made, I brought this to the attention of the IP. He has fluffed and made excuses ever since. I guess you are right though, the bankruptcy industry and the people who 'service it' are just in it for the fees and are not at all interested in settlement. Having paid 30,000 into the IVA and my company offerred a further 35,000 this would have been 65k out of 100k. Instead, they will bankrupt me, the creditors will get nothing becuase 20k of what I have paid has been taken up in fees already....

And this is a system designed to 'help' people? Glad I left the UK years ago, the only justice available is if you are very wealthy. I see Maxwell is back in business after owing..how much 300mn...?

Sorry to rant, but I think the system stinks. I think I will just have to state my case and then bankrupt the IP....

[Bank007]

Just an update. I had the bankruptcy hearing and the judge was initially a complete...unmentionable. He started the hearing of with "Well MR Bank007, what are you doing here, can you pay these debts or not?" It took me a good few minutes and some arguing to get him to even listen!!

When he did, however, he said that he understood the situation, but did not have the power to overturn the IVA. Suggested that I take leagl action against the IP and gave me another 6 weeks to do a dal with creditors... probably will end the same... but at least I got my point across and had a judge agreeing that the IP had screwed up.... The hearing is not a noce place, some have siad that the courts are consumer friendly.... not in my experience...

[MelanieGiles]

Hi there

Just to respond to your earlier point, about people involved in the bankruptcy industry, not all IPs work to the same standards that yours appears to have done, and I strongly recommend that you ask the IP's regulatory body to review this matter if you feel that you have had disservice.

I do not see why the IP cannot withdraw the certificate of non-compliance and the bankruptcy petition if there is a credible offer of settlement to be made which brings the IVA back into line. I note Catallus' point about the strict legal position, however this is also about commercial settlement with creditors under the IVA contract, and common sense should really prevail.

It is disappointing to read this post, as your view of our profession has been tarnished by poor service received. From the facts presented there really appears to be no point to the stance taken by the Supervisor. We have to stop this sort of thing happening in this industry.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[Bank007]

Hi Melanie

It is true that I have had a very bad experience and just to update you, I recieved an email after requesting information on my file and was told that I had to pay for it.. 25p per copy! This is after paying £20,000 in fees. When I finally got a creditors list, it was incomplete. Also.. a question.

On the original IVA, there were a list of creditors. Then a subsequent Creditors meeting took place where a new debt (the taxman) was mentioned. This was not in the IVA presented to court initially but the creditors meeting afterwoods... Can this debt now be included in the bankruptcy?

Regards

[Bank007]

As an update. I have just got my second letter back from the ICAEW confirming my compliant is going to some complaints committee. I am not expecting much but ass covering and more excuses, but I will let you know how it pans out.

In the meantime, all creditors except Amex have accepted my proposal...so we will see where we go from here... My advice to anyone unhappy with their IP is 'go for them' what have you got to lose..

[MelanieGiles]

This is a good sign. This means that the ICAEW really believe that something is worth investigating on your behalf. Do keep us informed of this matter as it develops.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[Bank007]

Hi...An Update

The ICAEW has written to the IP concerned requesting an interview. It also turns out that when the ICAEW get involved the IP suddenly becomes very cooperative. Files they wished to charged me for previoulsy have now turned up, and in there is confirmation in writing by the IP, of the 'scheduling' of a variation meeting which has been denied up to now. This meeting, of course, never happend.

Also, it appears that becuase the ICAEW is involved that all the creditors have now decided that I am not the bad guy and have all agreed to payment terms. I called the court to see what would happen about the next hearing and they suggested I get hold of the IP to withdraw the petition.

A question, if they don't withdraw the petition for any reason, with all the creditors agreeing, what is my best bet.. writing to the judge to explain? Or turning up at the hearing?

[Bank007]

Hi All

An update.

I received the dismissal of the bankruptcy petition a short while ago.

The pressure on the IP worked as they were happy to just get rid of the case. I made an offer to the creditors which was accepted. The whole thing, however, cost 20,000 in fees of the money I had paid in. When all is said and done I will have paid 90,000 of a 130k debt with 20,000 going to the IP in fees in what has ben a long six years.

Obvioulsy the advisors on this board are more professional than the people I dealt with but my advice to you all would be look very closely at who you are dealing with in this industry.

In my experience there are many sharks and the courts are so numbed to the process that there is very little sympathy for extenuating circumstances.

However, if you believe that you have had bad advice in any way, shape or form then I would complain to everyone you can. Cause a stink and eventually someone will listen to you. Don't be afraid of judges, lawyers or 'advisors'. I hired a lawyer and promptly sacked him when he treated the whole thing as routine and didn't fight my corner and wanted to charge 5k for the privelage. Few poeople will listen to you and only you will be able to make things happen...gather your evidence and start fighting back otherwise you will be steam rollered.

Cattalus said in this thread:

"reading between the lines a certificate of default has been issued and the supervisor has petitioned for your bankruptcy.

if that is the case then, in law, there is no going back, the IVA cannot be restored, and you should prepare to be made bankrupt".

With all due respect...this is what everyone said... I didn't accept it and I was right.... There is always a way f you stick to your guns

Best of luck to all of you still in the throws of dealing with debt Don't get too down... there is light at the end of the tunnel if you take charge.

[catullus]

Fair do's Bank007

All credit to you for fighting your corner, many wouldn't have, and you've shown what can be done. Your story also demonstrates that our regulators have some serious clout and that IP's ignore accepted professional standards at their peril.

When I posted my comments your story seemed so strange that I assumed that you had probably got your facts wrong and that the IP was acting in a professional manner. Seems like it was the other way round!!

[MelanieGiles]

I didn't say it!!! I said that I did not see why the petition could not be withdrawn and it seems common sense has prevailed.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp