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Welsh Boy

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Post by Welsh Boy » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:36 pm
I have just had a conversation with a nice chap who has found himself in a very very difficult position and although it`s not like me to post much at all on the weekend I felt that if anyone is reading this site and I can possibly help 1 person to stop and re think if the following scenario is relative to you. In the first instance I have posted on this subject many months ago, the topic being negative equity secured loans. This chap has found himself in such a situation where he has completely snookered himself by signing up to and taking out a negative equity secured loan. The point being there has been a slight change in his circumstances and now the proverbial will hit the fan for him. There is no scope to do anything with him, he has an excellent first mortgage lender and has succumbed to the advertisement from the 2nd charge provider. I appreciate that nobody forced him to take out the borrowing but given the circumstance when he took out the loan there would have been other more beneficial options open to him namely in the first instance consult the existing mortgage lender, I know from experience they would have pointed him in the right direction and advised accordingly, I really feel for all of us who feel shackled by not having many options available to us but please really think about what you are about to do, I mentioned it before but I can`t think of a situation where they would be "best advice" or indeed good advice. I hope this may be of help to someone. Tony

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Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:41 pm
Hi
Thanks Tony
Are secured loan companies regulated in the same way as mortgage companies ? Do they have to give best advice ?
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Welsh Boy

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Post by Welsh Boy » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:58 pm
Hello Andy

No mate for some reason they don`t seem to have the same regulatory criteria. Although I do believe they have code standards of good practice, nobody could convince me putting yourself in a negative equity position like this should ever be considered good. I am not talking about all secured loans just these negative equity products. Tony

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Storm

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Post by Storm » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:48 pm
Tony - I am aware of a couple of second charge brokers who have avoided giving 'best advice' because of the current mixed regulatory regime.

The companies concerned only recommend second charge products because they are not mortgage brokers and therefor can't offer mortgage advice.

It seems most of the 100%+ products are being withdrawn ???

I also know of one company who have closed there second charge department because they tried to offer best second charge advice. When they reviewed the deals they had walked away from because it wasn't in the customers interests - over 70% had in fact gone to another broker who was prepared to do the deal and earn the commission.
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:04 pm
Tony, Same old, same old...

Storm as brokers we all have stories like that - never mind the second charge brigade, we very often turn away first charge applicants based on best advice and not being in the applicants’ best interest, only to find some money grabbing broker not concerned with the wrath of the FSA or what is best for the applicant.

We offer second charge products, but being directly authorised we apply all the same principles as we do for first charge products.

I have seen more and more applicants with problems where they have borrowed over and above the value of their property, believing that they have no need to plan for changes in their circumstances, coupled with, very often borrowing 6x + income.

I know there is some that believe there is nothing wrong with this sort of borrowing if the applicant is seemingly able to afford it at the time. But what about when something goes wrong! There is nowhere to turn and things quickly go from bad to worse, and people start taking expensive credit to repay secured borrowing, when in most cases, all that is needed is a little respite from a temporary cash flow problem and the ability to perhaps release or raise a tad more from equity. You can’t do that when you have already borrowed 125% and 6x income…

I wish I could get the stats for the number of applicants that had taken first and second charge secured from other brokers that had been turned away by us for ‘not in clients best interest’. £ to a pinch the failure rate would be massive….


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Welsh Boy

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Post by Welsh Boy » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:06 pm
Storm

Very interesting that about a company refusing the work and another picking it up, in all the years I have been doing this I have only once set up a secured loan and that was because the penalties to move the mortgage were very substantial and the loan to value ended up at about 65% including the loan, my thoughts are always try and get your present lender to take on the business if possible, if or when they refuse then you should ask yourself the question why and this may start to make you consider pursuing it further with another provider. I know what it`s like to be desperate or needy financially but please don`t back yourself into a corner.

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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:23 pm
I am seeing more and more clients with unaffordable secured loans simply because they have been attracted by the very smooth TV advertising that the Advertising Standards Agency deems appropriate. At a time when my own profession have taken a bashing about dodgy advertising (rightly so in my opinion!) isn't it time the wonderful old FSA took some steps to temper this!

People just don't know what they are signing up to with some of these loans.

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Storm

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Post by Storm » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:25 pm
Tony - 'I know what it`s like to be desperate or needy financially but please don`t back yourself into a corner' - I am fortuanate not to be in this position I was commenting as an industry professional.

Mike - one interesting stat for last month was that of the 1000 or so applications they processed for 2nd charge loans 65% had no equity available or were in excess of 100+ already and that 23% of applications already had a second charge loan less than 24 months old.
 
 

Storm

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Post by Storm » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:28 pm
A major step forward would be regulating the second charge market via the FSA. At present as you will know the only part of the process that is regulated is the sale of insurance products such as PPP.

Today anybody can and does set up as a second charge broker... a few adverts in the paper and a website (with google adwords) and your away.
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:29 pm
Storm thanks for the stats - why am I not surprised...

Melanie unfortunately second charge does not come under the remit of the FSA


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see feedback and testimonials at:
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mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:30 pm
oops you already covered that Storm sorry - you posted secs before me

FREE ADVICE IS THE BEST ADVICE

LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
Mortgage Broker & Mortgage packager

Specialising in adverse credit.

Firm FSA No:313790
Personal FSA No:MJB01557

see feedback and testimonials at:
http://www.leybridge.com/testimonial.php
Check out my blog at:
http://mikebdomain.blogs.iva.co.uk/
Please read our Initial Disclosure Document(IDD):
http://www.leybridge.com/Leybridge-IDD.pdf
Last edited by mikebdomain on Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:34 pm
Why do secured loans not come under the remit of the FSA?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

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mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:37 pm
What Mortgages Are Covered?

The mortgage must be:

taken out by an individual or trustee; and

a first legal charge on the borrowers property - this must be located in the UK and must be at least 40% occupied by the borrower or immediate family.

As well as mortgages for property purchase, the FSA will cover other products where the security is a first charge over the borrowers residential property, including home improvement loans, debt consolidation loans, lifetime mortgages, secured credit cards etc.

Whats not covered?

FSA will not cover second charge loans, most buy to let arrangements and loans to companies.

It's not a regulated mortgage contract


FREE ADVICE IS THE BEST ADVICE

LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
Mortgage Broker & Mortgage packager

Specialising in adverse credit.

Firm FSA No:313790
Personal FSA No:MJB01557

see feedback and testimonials at:
http://www.leybridge.com/testimonial.php
Check out my blog at:
http://mikebdomain.blogs.iva.co.uk/
Please read our Initial Disclosure Document(IDD):
http://www.leybridge.com/Leybridge-IDD.pdf
Last edited by mikebdomain on Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
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CeMAP 1,2 & 3 qualified
F.P.C 1,2 & 3 qualified
Financial Planning Certificate
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Storm

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Post by Storm » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:39 pm
The FSA specifically excluded second charge products.

The second charge market is totally unregulated particularly if they do not offer PPP (which would be the only regulated part of the sale)


YOU BEAT ME THIS TIME MIKE ........
Last edited by Storm on Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:43 pm
So rather than wasting its time on trying to regulate my profession now as well - who are already very tightly regulated by eight separate regulatory bodies, wouldn't its efforts be better spent on looking at this very dangerous area of lending? I rarely see many clients these days who have properties without secured lending, and they have not had one scrap of advice as to the implications or cost of the borrowing.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
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