the bailiffs are knocking.

[nf77]

Have recently gone bankrupt and it has been filed and gone throught the court. There was a debt on there for non residential council tax, I need to know if this covered by bankruptcy as the bailiffs are knocking.
Thanks

[MelanieGiles]

Hi nf77 and welcome to the forum

Yes - the debt is covered by your bankruptcy, so refer the bailiff to the Official Receiver who is handling your case.

[zoe]

I would contact the Local Authority and show them papers or refer them to insolvency website. They should then call off bailiff for you

Z

[nf77]

Hi Melanie,

Thanks but because a liability order was filed before the bankruptcy they are saying they can not call it off and the baliffs are being handed the case back. As I didnt know the correct procedures I let the bailiffs in to list my items. I have since found tht they can come and take my possesions and make forced entry, althoughI did not sign the form that the bailiff had with my items logged on.
I am now being told that I will have to let the bailiffs take what they can and for the rest of the debt it will be sorted theough the bankruptcy.
I have written, phoned and been to se my local council and they can do nothing.
My official receiver is also no help to me saying the bailiffs can pursue the matter.
I am now in the postion where I hve to pay to see a sollicitor in the hope of getting the corrext advice, this is going to cost me money I dont have.
My 12 year old daughter is becoming very anxious about the matter and Im not sure where to turn.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Yes - the debt is covered by your bankruptcy, so refer the bailiff to the Official Receiver who is handling your case.
[/quote]

Hi nf77 and welcome to the forum

Yes - the debt is covered by your bankruptcy, so refer the bailiff to the Official Receiver who is handling your case.

[Reviva UK]

I can't see how this debt is payable after bankruptcy. As they have not collected and of the payment ( in goods or cash) then the debt is still live and therefore is covered by the petition.

it is an offence to make a payment of any amount to a creditor for a debt prior to B. Any funds that are paid out to the crediotrs must come from the OR or trustee.

Give the OR a call again tomorrow and just confirm that the goods have not been removed and can he pls confirm his position for a pre bankruptcy debt.

I also understood that a baliff was unlikely to remove goods if the value of the goods was insufficient to meet the majority or whole of the debt.

Good luck on the phone tomorrow at 9.00am

[Storm]

Did the bailiff attend the property after your bankrupcy order was made ???

If the bailiff came before and has a walking possession agreement ie you let them into your home after they explained who they were and they listed the items etc etc then the items on the list have been seized and legally belong to the bailiff and can be removed at any time.

Are any of the following items included on the list ? if so you maybe able to protect these items:

Bailiffs (except bailiffs acting on behalf of the magistrate's court) cannot seize the following goods:

tools, goods, vehicles and other items of equipment necessary for use by you in your employment, business or vocation.

clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions as are necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of you and your family

Bailiffs acting on behalf of the magistrates' court cannot seize the following goods:

clothing, beds and bedding tools of the trade
basic domestic needs of the family would normally include fridge, cookers, freezers, but may not include video recorders, second TV's, jewellery, washing machines, stereos or microwave cookers.

[Soulgrowth]

nf77 ... I just wanted to say that I am thinking of you ... what a horrible, scary situation especially with your young daughter being at home.

Do let us know how you get on.

Debbie

[nf77]

[quote]Originally posted by Storm

Did the bailiff attend the property after your bankrupcy order was made ???

Yes they did. I think because a liabilty order was put in place before the bankruptcy they can still pursue the debt. But there is not even half the value of goods in my home to cover the debt, to make it worse I am not working at the moment due to the stress so therefore I have no way of paying back the money.
This debt was due to business council tax (non domestic). Does this make a difference?
I can not see why they are pursuing it and not going through the bankruptcy as I have no goods and no money to pay it back. It doesnt make sense!!

[zoe]

If the walking possession was done after the Br Order then not valid regardless as to when the Liability order was made.
It is for Business Rates then?
I would suggest that you speak to your receiver as you are not having luck with the Council. Out of interest who are the bailiffs?

[ianmillington]

The fact a liability order has been made does not allow them to override a bankruptcy order. It may well be that the bailiff is what is called a certificated bailiff who gets paid a commission on what he collects. If he collects nothing, he gets paid nothing.

I could confuse the issue with case law. However,you might find this link provides a user-friendly explanation of what a liability order does.

http://www.burnley.gov.uk/site/scripts/ ... geNumber=5

You need to get the OR to tell the Council to call the dogs off.

Hope this helps a bit.

ian

[Adam Davies]

Hi
Quote from nf77 'My official receiver is also no help to me saying the bailiffs can pursue the matter'
What a strange situation ?
I will be very interested to know the outcome of this
Regards

[richardparkin]

Hello,

As some of the earlier posts have indicated, what a strange situation this is. A bankruptcy order will take priority over the liability order here and therefore I am surprised by the Official Receiver’s attitude.

If you are still not having any joy with the council direct, the O.R or the bailiffs themselves I wonder if it is worth contacting the Certified Bailiffs Association. Although there is no formal regulatory structure in place, the bailiff may be a member of this association and therefore subject to its complaints procedure.

Failing that, how about the local court? Although these bailiffs are not strictly officers of the court and are not employed by the court they are seen as representatives because they act under the authority of a certificate issued by the court. Therefore the court exercises, under the certification process, a certain amount of control over the standards of competence and conduct of the bailiffs.

Just a thought, and hope this helps you sort it out.

[ianmillington]

Just to update, I have been speaking with the poster at length this afternoon.

I would agree that this is a strange situation and is possibly the result of someone in the local council having an agenda. nf77 has also sent me a copy of a document issued by the OR (it looks like a page out of the manual) which does state that distress is exercisable at any time and the only defence is an interim order.

The Non-Domestic Rating Regs 1989 and Council Tax Regs 1992 (i've not stated the full titles) are thrown in as apparent justification for that statement but without quoting specific bits. Whilst not going through them in great detail I have found they state "where a liability order has been made.......shall be deemed to be a debt for the purposes of Section 267 IA 1986 (grounds of creditors petition). To my (perhaps simple) mind that must mean it's a provable debt and thus discharged by the bankruptcy.

I won't go into the details of the case as they are not mine to disclose. However I have put nf77 in touch with someone whom I believe will be of practical help, and am told I'll be kept advised of developments.

Ian

[buttercup]

Ian

I think it is great that you have helped out like this.

[chris.g]

Just wanted to wish you luck nf77, you have enough on your plate at the moment without this. Thankfully there are people like Ian and others on here to offer their help and support. xxx