Due to Freeman Jones calculations being incorrect my monthly payment has increased

[Paul_d]

That £397 budget you speak about is not just for food,it's a housekeeping budget.

I would love to be able to feed my family and keep the house clean and the clothes washed all for £17 but the reality is I can't.

What about nappies/milk formula/pet food/cleaning products.

All of these are rarely reduced and can't be found in the discount isle and are very much a neccesity.

[dancer]

You certainly can't feed 4 adults 'well' for £17 per week - a 2 year old obviously doesn't eat as much as a teenager/adult & nor do they need 5 packed lunches every week/deodorant/shampoo & as they have had to go without things during the IVA (which is no fault of theirs) I do not intend to starve them as well!

Lou3, having read some of your posts, you do seem to be quite 'bitter' about the allowances within some IVA budgets, especially for someone who didn't have to live within them for the full 5/6 year term.

[bridgey]

Life in an IVA isn't supposed to be easy, that's the point.

But it shouldn't be so bad that you cant afford to live and have the basics.

If you cant afford the basic living expenses - perhaps an IVA isnt the best route to continue on

[miak]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by lou3

I certainly did not NEED the sky TV (nobody NEEDS sky TV), or the fibre optic broadband, or the £35 a month mobile phone bill (sim only contracts start at £5 a month) nor did I NEED the hobbies allowance (again nobody NEEDS this and if someone owed me money it would be something I would expect to be cut out completely until I was paid back).

I havent posted for a long time but this post has driven me to it, why do you think you have the right to be so judgmental??? You dont know what I need. You dont know any of us. How old are you again? Howe long were you in an IVA???

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but how can you tell us what we need or dont need and how guilty we should be feeling about owing money?

Yes, I am ready to be now berated by the forum. To everyone else, sorry, but I had to say it

[Michael Peoples]

You will certainly not get berated by me Miak! I need a mobile phone and I definitely need Sky because of the rubbish on BBC & ITV. I do not like soaps or costume dramas, chat shows or Jimmy Carr etc so the only hope I have of relaxing TV is via Sky.

We give smoking allowances although it could be argued that cigarettes are not necessities but realistically people will smoke before they eat so why jeopardise an IVA because of a personal dislike of smoking?

The whole point of an IVA is to propose something affordable and sustainable which will allow creditors to recover some [or all] of their money while leaving the debtors with a reasonable standard of living. Do this and an IVA will run it's course but do otherwise and the IVA will fail to nobody's benefit.

An IVA is not a punishment and children in particular need balanced diets. While I accept what Lou says about cost saving meals, many of our clients have full time jobs and do not physically have the time to do all the things suggested to save money.

[miak]

Thank you Michael. I just dont agree on people telling us how to manage our personal lifes. I of course agree with some of Lou's ideas, but no one has a right to tell me what to do, what I need or how guilty to feel. I already do that on my own thank you very much.

Like you said, there is a standard of living allowed into the IVA and sometimes some of us are luck enough to manage well, but I would never ever dream of telling anyone here how they should be running their lifes or tell them to live with the bare basics, especially with kids involved!!

I do have sky. I dont smoke or drink. Does this mean I shoud berate myself for watching Poirot and the Big Bang Theory? TV is the only distraction I have.

Lou, I have two pets. Should I given them up too? They arent essential. I dont HAVE to have them.

I work full time for the NHS, I cant do the wholesome cooking thing, should I feel guity then?

OK, I need a cuppa. I am very angry still.

[Til]

Miak I agree with you wholeheartedly. What works for one household won't work for another. Different jobs, family commitments, working hours, shift patterns, rural/town locations, car or no car, medical needs, social needs, etc etc - all make a great difference in what each household needs and NOBODY should be judging that on here.

Our contingency fund for a family of 3 is £50. Do I think this is enough - NO. Have I managed to make it work for 6 years - YES!

We should all walk a mile in others shoes before we judge.

[lou3]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by dancer

You certainly can't feed 4 adults 'well' for £17 per week - a 2 year old obviously doesn't eat as much as a teenager/adult & nor do they need 5 packed lunches every week/deodorant/shampoo & as they have had to go without things during the IVA (which is no fault of theirs) I do not intend to starve them as well!

Lou3, having read some of your posts, you do seem to be quite 'bitter' about the allowances within some IVA budgets, especially for someone who didn't have to live within them for the full 5/6 year term.

Where did I say you should be able to feed four adults for £17 per week? I said that I managed to feed what amounts to two and half adults on £17 per week. (and btw that included toiletries, apart from nappies). We did not have to starve at all, we ate just as well as normal. Nor did I say everyone should do ALL of these things, but even by doing less than a third of them all the time, and a few more as and when convenient, I still only spend just over half what would have been permitted - and absolutely do not go short of anything - and that includes cleaning products, laundry products, pet food and treats etc. The only thing I would say is extra to that is probably nappies, but that doesn't account for £150 a month by a long shot.

[lou3]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by miak

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by lou3

I certainly did not NEED the sky TV (nobody NEEDS sky TV), or the fibre optic broadband, or the £35 a month mobile phone bill (sim only contracts start at £5 a month) nor did I NEED the hobbies allowance (again nobody NEEDS this and if someone owed me money it would be something I would expect to be cut out completely until I was paid back).

I havent posted for a long time but this post has driven me to it, why do you think you have the right to be so judgmental??? You dont know what I need. You dont know any of us. How old are you again? Howe long were you in an IVA???

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but how can you tell us what we need or dont need and how guilty we should be feeling about owing money?

Yes, I am ready to be now berated by the forum. To everyone else, sorry, but I had to say it

Need is not a question of opinion, it's a question of the actual requirements for a person to stay alive, keep their home and pay their bills. People often WANT the things listed - but millions of people manage just fine without them, so no, they are not necessities for anyone. I know plenty of people who don't even own a TV let alone have Sky. Therefore it cannot be a necessity like paying the electricity bill or the mortgage or everybody would need it. (and don't start quoting things like wheelchairs that some people need and others don't because it is not the same thing - medical necessity is different to something someone wants but doesn't physically depend on.)

I felt like crap when I owed money through poor choices on where I went to school and the routes through which I borrowed to do so. However I definitely felt like the allowances within the IVA meant I got off VERY easily in terms of the luxuries I was able to afford during it and the lifestyle I was able to maintain. If I hadn't had the IVA I would have had bailiffs at the door, court orders against me, attachment of earnings orders, continued constant harrassment from the creditors, could have lost my home, had to move back in with my parents, had to give up my car, give away my dog because I wouldn't have been able to afford to feed her, none of these things happened, the IVA meant that I essentially was able to maintain what is quite a lavish lifestyle (not by standards in Britain perhaps but Britain is a tiny proportion of the world). Even had I NOT been permitted luxuries like Sky TV, smart phones and the allowance for my hockey club membership and matches I would have considered it a considerably improved lifestyle. As it was I really didn't have to make any sacrifices at all, except that I couldn't eat out as much as I was used to, go out drinking or take holidays. But guess what - I now have a family to take care of and still can't do those things, it's just that I had two years of learning how to properly live within my means and I am now able to budget properly.

[Til]

Following on from that logically then, would you subscribe to NO tv package at all (it does not keep people alive) ... no mobile phone (same reason) ... no dentist allowance (same reason) ... no clothing allowance (same reason) etc etc.

I'm sorry but your definition of need is yours and yours alone - I would suggest that perhaps allowing for the fact that not everyone shares the sames needs should be considered.

In addition, when you have others in the household who are NOT in an IVA, should your mistakes force them to suffer? My child does not NEED some of the things we have an allowance for - should she go without because of my mistakes?

The world is not black and white and neither are peoples lives - that is why an IVA stands for INDIVIDUAL and each persons should be tailored for their, in most cases, very different NEEDS.

[dancer]

A 2 year olds needs (especially excluding nappies) DO NOT amount to half an adult...sorry, did you say you were allowed membership fees to a hockey club? & yet you are preaching on how we should all be grateful to be allowed to live on a limited budget?
Having to get to the stage where an IVA seems the only way out does not mean you think life from then on will be easy - far from it.
Lou3, did you have to explain to family
& friends why you can no longer join in with holidays, explain to your children why they are the only ones who can't join their classmates on all school holidays/trips/activities, why they can't have birthday parties/trips like their friends, why you have a car so old it spends more time in the garage than on the road & why you have the same 'cheap' meals every week for dinner?
No, I don't suppose you did because you are a martyr who budgets every penny to the hilt, doesn't agree with any of the budgets allowed & was bailed out after 2 years by a 3rd party F&F settlement, so stop being so judgemental of every one who finds themselves in this position as your kind of 'help' is not useful to the majority of us on here.
As someone who has supposedly had an IVA & been employed in the industry it's fairly obvious which side of the fence you sit on - you weren't employed by my IP company were you ?
I'm not really sure why you have chosen to join the forum other than to attempt to make members feel worse than they do already.
Sorry to everyone else but I have had enough of reading the judgmental opinions of this particular person & they obviously have no experience of living in my world.

[Shining]

an IVA is just that an Individual Voluntary Arrangement and here the emphasis is on Individual as each and every one of us that are or have been in an IVA will have a different budget and different priorities in their budget. We're all in or have been in an IVA for varying reasons.

The ethos of the forum is respect for all and we always strive to be non-judgmental.

[admin]

On this wise note from Lesley this thread is now closed.. The ethos of this forum is respect for all, and no judgemental posts are allowed. This thread has been edging ever closer to being judgemental, and as such will be archived this afternoon.

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