cleardebt advised me to have a 'celebratory bonfire' with all our paperwork

[fruitcake]

The relief we had when we took on the iva was good, never expected it to be easy. Two years on, now facing bankruptcy because we believed in what we were advised at the beginning to be correct by the iva people and also due to their errors or mistakes about how to handle our ppi claims. I am not saying that iVAs arenot a good idea, but when you're In such a stressful and depressed state you believe (and should be able to) what you are advised by these experts and their teams. If mistakes happen, rather than trying to make you suffer for them, apologise and rectify them. I have much more respect and time for companies and individuals who can do that than the bullies who do 'no wrong!'

[Niobe]

Cleardebt are a well respected company and I am sure David Mond and Size5 will look into things for you.

I am not with them but my own company made sure that I was fully aware of all solutions open to me and what they entailed that I understood what I was signing up to.

[TheArtist]

Unfortunately Fruitcake, through our own immaturity with money and handling of debt we all found ourselves in a situation where we needed these 'advisors'. Some are good, some not so. However we can never tell this until we have been committed to it. That is why it is absolutely VITAL, pre IVA or BR, to do as much research as you can. It seems too late for you now and i suppose you will just have to go with it.

Some IPs are awful but must not all be tarred with the same brush. You seem to have chosen a wrong 'un.

But you also seem very down about the whole IVA situation. You are not alone. It is tough for 5/6 years and downright depressing when you want to move on but can't. I know, through experience of this, that when you finally finish this, and you will, you will be a much, much stronger individual with massive self respect. I did, and have. I didn't enjoy the IVA experience but it taught me so much. This is now being filtered down to my children, who hopefully are learning from my mistakes.

By the way, Cleardebts advice to you to have a 'celebratory bonfire' with all our paperwork' is appalling and worse than useless and very unhelpful.

[fruitcake]

I hope so, the agents who helped us, were very helpful, patient ( due to me crying) and kind, sadly not correct on a few things.

[Foggy]

Trouble is PPI has hit the experts and us debtors alike from out of the blue ---- much like the adverse effects of the property crashes, which left many in absolutely dire positions.

As you so rightly say, what sorts the men from the boys (with apologies to team Mel), is how these things are ultimately dealt with.

Have a chat with Size5 and see if there is a mutually agreeable way forward. What has happened has happened, now you and cleardebt must work together to find a way forward.

[TheArtist]

Agreed Foggy. But when I was at work, in architecture, my work had to comply with a set of rules, the Building Regulations. Clear cut, black and white - no deviation from the Regs.

Is it too much to ask, for the same in the IVA industry. Notwithstanding PPI/VAT or any other interference, how difficult is it for the FSA, once and for all, to compile a set of rules for ALL with regards to behaviour and compliance. There are so many different IPs and with it so many different criteria and with it so many different reasons for closures etc. How difficult can that be???

[Niobe]

Regs may be there in black and white but we all know there are ways around them!

[Cairo]

all i see are vultures picking at our bones

[fruitcake]

I am holding out to see if mr mond can help. I wonder if he knew about us receiving the letter from his solicitor/finance dept just two days before Christmas. Why they didnt send a noose or a sharp blade at the same time? Its the first correspondence from them since sept, just a coincidence of timing I expect they will say.

[Foggy]

The Artist -- I agree totally. As I have said elsewhere, there is too much of the nitty gritty of these proposals left to the IP's discretion.

I do believe that this discretion was intended to give IP's the ability to assist clients getting through their IVA's. For insyance, mine says that windfalls are dealt with at the IP's discretion. I take that to read, if I get a windfall and the car blows up, the IP has the authority to let me keep some of the money for repair or replacement. However, some IP's will take the lot then agree a repayable payment break for the repairs !

Black and white rules might, in some instances, be tougher, but they would be agreed at the outset and there would be little wiggle room for IP's to move goalposts. We would then at least know what we had signed up for and there would be no surprises.

[sterling]

Many proposals are quite clear but some companies appear to be quite happy to ignore them or reinterpret them to suit thier own agenda. The problem, as I see it, is these sort of things have to be tried/tested at court and people in an IVA are the least likely people to be able to afford this route. My own IVA states quite clearly that it must not exceed 72 months but my company has told me they can extend it. What can I do? I'm afraid the answer is nothing.
I have a funny feeling that there will be legal challenges to some decisions in the future and some will be successful and this will lead to an almighty mess for some in the industry.

[MelanieGiles]

You may well view members of my profession to be "vultures picking up the bones" Cairo, and believe me I have been called worse in my time - but do you honestly think that you are in a worse position now than you were when you entered into the IVA - and if so, what were the reasons which made you choose the IVA and how much debt have you actually got written off along the way?

It is our job to maximise the realisation of assets - and we are one of the tightest, regulated professions I know. You may all think that we are doing things wrong, but the vast majority of us are simply doing the jobs we are paid to do.

[Cairo]

Melanie,

thanks fro your reply. The comment was directed at the financial services in general. When they start fighting over money you simply would like to be passed onto the creditors I see it as a bad thing.

[Cairo]

Melanie,

to answer your second point, in hide sight I wish i had had the courage to deal directly with the creditors myself. But now I see the mess the financial services are in and the number of fines being placed against them it doesn't make my errors/misfortunes in life seem so bad.

[Foggy]

Mel, I apologise if any of my comments have upset you. However, I would venture to say that the reason some comments here may seem inflammatory is because you care! If all of your profession had your ( and your team's) ethics and dedication all would be sweetness and light on the forum.

Your defence of your profession is understandable. To be honest you have contact, and knowledge of, far more IPs than do we here. We only have experience of those of the profession represented on this forum and of those acting for us.

My personal experience with RSM and now, so far, with GT ( despite their bad press) has been good. However, my impressions of several companies are not good.

I agree that your profession is highly regulated, but that regulation is of no assistance to us debtors when so much is left to discretion, and I do believe that, IN SOME CASES, that discretion is slewed by the need to maximise, not only realisations for creditors, but those percentage based fees. I realise that your fees are already squeezed by the creditors, but percentage based fees, albeit none of the professions doing and imposed by the creditors, are, in my eyes an obstacle to impartiality and a devious device introduced by the creditors designed to force every last penny out of us.

In my, admittedly, short time dealing with these matters I have seen, from my perspective, a slewing of the way we debtors are dealt with in favour of the creditors.

Yes, I know all the arguements about the need to realise as much as possible for the creditors. Let's face it, that is why the majority of us are here in an IVA in the first place (well, apart from our financial incompetence!).

Whilst on my current rant, I would also like to mention ..... the advice often tendered here is to speak to your IP ( I have said it myself). Now, in the case of any fortunate enough to have chosen Mel's team, this is good advice. However, for many, if not most, of the rest of us, we have as much chance of speaking to our IPs as we have of swimming to the moon and back in our lunch breaks!

Before I throw the rest of my toys out of my pram I shall retire (not so) gracefully and ride off into the sunset ......

Adios and Vaya con Dios