If the IVA is for you alone then only your equity can be taken into account and if you paid differing amounts of the deposit this should be reflected in the equity position. Regardless, I assume you are self employed therefore the IVA being proposed sounds like a protocol one and if HMRC have any realistic vote they will modify out the standard protocol equity clauses anyway.
How much do you owe HMRC and how much is your total debt?
I disagree Michael. The equity should only be dealt with in unequal shares, if they hold the property as Tenants in Common, with shares reflecting the deposit situation. If they are Joint Tenants ( as most couples are) they own equal shares irrespective of the deposit arrangements.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
In my opinion Foggy the issue of tenancy would apply in death but not insolvency. When deciding what the equitable interest would be we look at a number of factors such as;
1. Who paid the deposit?
2. Who funded the mortgage repayments?
3. Who paid for any home improvements carried out on the property?
4. Did either of the parties take money out of the property already for their own use such as to invest in a business?
At the beginning you would assume a 50/50 split but if the parties can produce evidence that the equity is not 50/50 then we proceed on that basis. Surely it would be completely unfair to penalise PeterCar's wife as a result of his insolvency?
All fair points, Michael, but then you and your company tend to take a fair and sensible view of these things. Many companies / IP's don't and will rely on the legal definitions only, regardless of the equitable view.
To be honest I am surprised that Tenon are taking this view, but am minded that the whole issue hasn't been fully discussed and the negiotiations appear to be a little one sided. As mentioned to the OP, he should be discussing his concerns with Tenon, who will, in all probability, proceed on the normal assumptions without information / evidence to the contrary.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
I agree Foggy and I think part of the blame lies with the Protocol IVA. While Protocol IVAs may be suitable for the majority of cases they are not suitable for them all. They have taken the 'Individual' out of individual voluntary arrangement and too often IP firms use a one size fits all approach. Many systems in use struggle to cope with IVAs that are anyway outside the norm so it is easier to just produce a standard document and if rejected so be it.
I think PeterCar needs a long chat with someone senior because his is not a Protocol IVA and to send one out would be wrong in my opinion.
sorry if i was not clear enough
wife put 30000 down i put 8000
i funded mortgage repayments and repairs etc
we are both doing iva
wife debts 13000
my debts 31000
hmrc =4000
iva is non protocol compliant
Last edited by petercar on Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael is correct - Peter's wife is entitled under the law of equity to a greater share of the equity by nature of her higher investment, and these important facts ought to be reported to creditors.
Given the level of HMRC debts it is highly possible that they will not vote. However make sure the figure is correct and includes the liability for the current tax year 2011/12 and possibly 2012/13 if the meeting is held after 6th April.
The equity situation implies that your wife is not actually insolvent on an asset basis as she could sell, repay her creditors in full and still have money left over. Depending on her surplus income she could end up repaying in full with costs and perhaps a DMP would be a cheaper option for her. An IVA certainly seems like a viable option for you although not having all the facts I am partially guessing.
Would the hmrc likely to pull a bankruptcy order at the meeting
These r the one I'm worried about the most cos they chase u at any cost
If the meeting fails would all creditor file bankruptcy
The ip have said no Deal no fees
Do u think a deal could be reached
Is 20% fee fair £12000 plus 3rd party fee 1850 each
I don't know very much about HMRC but in general, creditors do not force people into bankruptcy because it costs them a fair bit to do this. So please don't worry about this - if the iva isn't accepted, you will have time to think about the next best solution for your family.
The fees will be set by the creditors at the meeting - the IP doesn't have very much control over these at the end of the day. And as the creditors end up paying the fees in most cases, you can be sure they drive them as low as possible!!
If you aren't 100% happy with the advice from Tenon, you could speak to one of the experts advising you on here. It will either re-affirm your decision to go with Tenon or give you some food for thought. 5/6 years is a long slog and you need to have faith in your IP to make the arrangement work.
Hi, as said above, do speak to another firm or two to see how they compare to Tenon. As I said, they were (are) good for me, but my case was relatively straightforward and they seem to be including non standard clauses in your proposal. You really need to speak to them at length to understand why they are using these clauses.
At the end of the day you DO need to be 100% confident with yopur choice of IP.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
HMRC may issue bankruptcy proceedings if the IVA is rejected as they have other criteria rather than just pence in the £. However, they are not a large enough creditor to sway the vote so it will be down to the other creditors as to whether it is accepted.
£12,000 seems a reasonable fee for a five year trading IVA but creditors can reduce it if they feel it is unreasonable.
I feel confident that the fee will be reduced to around 15%, which seems to be the norm these days. Probably a bit like selling a car: ask for a bit more than you actually want, when you get beaten down to the price you really wanted, the buyer thinks they have a bargain, and you have got what you really wanted in the first place !!!
HMRC was only a small creditors (value wise) in my IVA, they didn't vote and are, so far, the only creditor not to have put in a formal claim.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
Hello everybody again signed by iva i hope it will go through
Does any body know what normally is average amount they accept
My first meeting on Friday but looks like after fees they r only getting
About 20 in the £ surely they are going to go to hell if u know what I mean
There isn't an average amount, these days, as cases vary wildly and not in any predictable manner. I have seen less than 20% accepted. If it is the best offer on the table they will look at it purely from that angle. Some creditors sell on debts for far less.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
