Hi my husband unhappily entered into an IVA

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emma12

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Post by emma12 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:51 pm
Hi my husband unhappily entered into an IVA in October 2007. Both of our finances were taken into account but a week before the creditors meeting I lost my Job, we informed the company that set up the IVA of the new circumstances and that we no longer wanted to proceed as we knew that we would not be able to afford the payments. They said that we had to continue as the meeting was only a few days away and now it has failed we are really disappointed as we feel that we shouldn't have had to continue when we knew that we couldn't afford the payments. No other options other an IVA were discussed in the initial phone call. Any bodys help or opinion appreciated
 
 

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:07 pm
You can pull out of an IVA any time up the meeting and if you weren't going to be able to afford the payments, then it shouldn't have gone ahead.

Who is the company?
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
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Lisa2009

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Post by Lisa2009 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:16 pm
You were given wrong information. You could have put a stop to it at any time before the meeting had taken place.
Which firm did you use?
http://mrsskint.blogs.iva.co.uk/ 'Our Story'


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Lisa2009

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Post by Lisa2009 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:17 pm
Sorry Jan, hadnt realised you had answered. I read the question and had to go upstairs to see to my son and answered once i came down. Only saw yours after mine had sent LOL
http://mrsskint.blogs.iva.co.uk/ 'Our Story'


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emma12

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Post by emma12 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:28 pm
Hi Jan
The company was Clear Start
kallis3 wrote:

You can pull out of an IVA any time up the meeting and if you weren't going to be able to afford the payments, then it shouldn't have gone ahead.

Who is the company?
 
 

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:33 pm
I don't remember hearing anything bad about them recently, and they are a well known firm.

You were given wrong information though. You can always complain, initially to Clear Start, then if that fails you can go through the Insolvency Service via this link:

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/howtocompl ... inssip.htm

What are you going to be doing now the IVA has failed?

Don't worry Lisa - great minds think alike![:)]
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:00 pm
That's pretty poor advice from the start, but setting this aside have you been managing the payments over the last two years?
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

Cybus

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Post by Cybus » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:45 pm
I have to disagree with the comments above regarding the meeting of creditors. I believe that once it has been convened the meeting does have to be held. The outcome of the meeting is then reported to Court. That report would either say that the arrangement was approved; or the arrangement was rejected or the proposal was withdrawn by the debtor.

I believe, from what you are saying, that your arrangement was approved in October 2007 when in fact after you had expressed your concerns to the IP, the proposal should have in fact been withdrawn. As I mentioned above the meeting still has to be held, but the question has to be asked why was the outcome of that meeting, not the withdrawal of the proposal?

If what you are saying regarding the advice given is correct then they have breached practice guidelines, which is potentially a very serious matter.

You cannot be forced to enter in to an IVA. You should be given the details of each option available to you and the respective advantages and disadvantages of those options. Until you are aware of those it is impossible for YOU to determine what is best for YOU. Only you can decide what is best for you. A firm cannot impose its views on you.

The Insolvency Practitioner is required to make a contemporaneous and full file note of his or her discussions with you. There is no ifs or maybe's, a file note must be kept.

You as the client should then have either been sent a copy of that file note or the advice given to you should have been confirmed in full in the form of a letter. It is then only you who can decide what you want to do based upon your circumstances.

As noted above, I do not believe there is an issue as regards the meeting of creditors. If it has been convened it should be held and thereafter the outcome of that meeting is reported to the court and creditors.

There are however issues regarding the advice that you were given and definitely regarding the outcome of the creditors meeting.

I tend to tell things like they are and so I apologise if I come across as harsh in the remainder of this post.

You would have had 28 days after the creditors meeting to challenge the meetings decision. I think one of the first questions that you may be asked by someone looking in to this matter would be ...

'If you had contacted the IP with a view to withdrawing the proposal but then found that, at the meeting held, the proposal had been approved, why was the outcome not challenged on receipt of the Chairman's report of that meeting'

Your answer may well be that you were not aware that you could challenge the outcome of the meeting.

Where I work, the debtor would be contacted on the day of the meeting and advised of the outcome verbally (They would of course be contacted prior to the day of the creditors meeting if modifications arose). 2 copies of the Chairman's Report are sent to the debtor with a request that they sign and return one copy as a record for the file. I don't know if other IP's do this, whether they do or not, a report is issued to the debtor in any event. That would have been an indication that something was not right and for the debtor to contact the IP and say 'Hey look I withdrew the proposal, what's going on here?'

They would perhaps then go on to ask,

'If you had asked to withdraw the proposal at the meeting, why have you paid contributions in to the arrangement?'

It's a perfectly valid question. Have you paid monies to the Supervisor of the arrangement since October 2007? If you have, the question would then have to be asked 'Why?'. If you have withdrawn your proposal you would not make payments to the Supervisor.

You may think my post harsh, but these are the sort of questions I envisage you may be asked.

If the initial advice given is as you stated it to be, then practice guidelines have been breached and there are grounds for complaint. But on the other hand, if the proposal was withdrawn I would question why any monies had been paid to the Supervisor.
Last edited by Cybus on Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:03 am
I entirely agree with Cybus's comprehensive and well presented comments above.

I am beginning to think that you are one of my employees in disguise!!!
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

MRBLUESKY

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Post by MRBLUESKY » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:20 am
whoever cybus is he or she certainly knows their stuff.i was thinking the same has you mel how has emma managed to pay into the iva with reduced income based on the original proposal,all i can think off is with a variation.hope you can give us more info emma so the experts can help you try and sort this out.
 
 

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:33 am
My apologies - I was alwsays under the impression that you could pull out.

Once the meeting has been held though, if you do not wish to accept it you can pull out then?
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

Cybus

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Post by Cybus » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:07 am
kallis3 wrote:

My apologies - I was alwsays under the impression that you could pull out.

Once the meeting has been held though, if you do not wish to accept it you can pull out then?
I think in the instance of the opening post, Emma12 and her husband had indicated that they were not comfortable with the proposal given Emma's change in circumstances. Had the notices convening the meeting not been sent out, then it would have been possible to withdraw from the process. However, the notices convening the meeting had already been sent out and as such the meeting had to be held. It is my opinion that the meeting should at the very least have been adjourned.

The meeting was held and given the facts above, I would have expected the Chairman's Report to reflect the desire of Emma12 and her husband to withdraw the proposal. Without being in possession of all the facts, it's not possible to determine why Clearstart issued a report suggesting the arrangement had been approved. That said, there was still the process of challenging the decision of the creditors meeting that was open to Emma12 and her husband when they received the Chairman's report on the outcome.

It's a puzzler without the full facts.
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Michael Peoples

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Post by Michael Peoples » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:30 am
Like you Cybus we do not proceed with the Chairman's Report until we have a copy of the modifications signed and returned by the debtor. This often requires a short adjournment if the client does not have access to a fax machine or scanner.

It does seem odd that the IVA ran two years and payments must have been made, otherwise it would have been failed earlier. I am sure that Clearstart would not have tried to coerce Emma into an IVA that they knew was doomed to failure as it would be in no one's interest at all to do this.
Michael Peoples | McCambridge Duffy Insolvency Practitioners
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If you would like to talk to me about proposing an IVA or have any questions at all please visit www.mccambridgeduffy.com
 
 

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:21 pm
It does seem an odd one.

Must admit though, we only had one modification and that was for the equity release. We agreed it verbally and it came through with our Chairmans report. We just signed it and sent it back.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

emma12

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Post by emma12 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:19 pm
Thanks for all your comments, once the meetimg had been held they told us verbally the outcome of the meeting but were not told that we could still withdraw the proposal. We never signed the amendments and sent them back although we did try and at least make some payments as we were under the impression given to us by the IP that once it had gone to the meeting and been approved if the iva failed he would automatically be declared bankrupt. Although now we know that this is not the case. Originally posted by kallis3[/i]

It does seem an odd one.

Must admit though, we only had one modification and that was for the equity release. We agreed it verbally and it came through with our Chairmans report. We just signed it and sent it back.
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