i've just had part3 of my creditors meeting and my proposal has been rejected!! Northern Rock held 34% of the vote and they voted against it. They only held 13% of my total debt but my IP couldn't get my other creditors to vote.
Egg, MBNA, Barclays etc all agreed to the proposal but NR would not budge. They said, I could afford to pay my creditors in a normal way.
I suppose now my only option is BR so I am now seeking advice from my accountant as to what I need to do, as a I am a director of my own Limited Company. I know I will need to step down but I need to know more.
One thing that I will get some satisfaction from, is that NR would have received about 70per £, now they will get nothing.
Why me? My IP say NR can be awkward and its unfortunate that its me they have been awkward with!!! She said its usually MBNA, but they were fine.
So I suppose I'll now have to cross over to the BR forum.
Thanks for your support everyone, but for now I guess I've no need to post on here!
If anyone wants any info, please ask, as I don't mind explaining my situation.
Hi, and sorry to hear that the result did not go the right way!
If NR only had 13% of the debt but managed to get a wopping 34% rejection in the vote, who were the big creditors who didn;t bother to vote? And, is there any milage in your IP attempting to canvas positive votes from them once more?
Like you say, it just seems so unfair to force BR when you tried to give such a good return. Being a Director in a limited company really does make BR a less attractive proposition!
Sorry to hear about NRs stance and I agree with GinSkipper that it may be worth resubmitting and trying to get the other creditors to vote.
The directorship is not a major issue as you can continue to operate as a sole trader or you could work as an employee if someone else becomes a director. However, your shareholding would become an asset in bankruptcy so if the company has a healthy balance sheet the value would have to be realised in bankruptcy. You could sell your shareholding but it would have to be done completely above board, at a true price and the monies received would need to be protected and introduced into the bankruptcy pot.
This was the last day as my creditors meeting had already been adjourned twice.
The big ones who did not vote were Barclays (Loan), my CC debt was sold on but they still had the vote on the loan and Capital One.
My IP has been trying to get them to vote but they wouldn't!
So NR share of the vote increased massively and they had the final say.
My IP said NR had turned down all IVA proposals she had put to them over the past week or so! [:(]
Never mind, the show must go on as they say!!!
Hopefully the OR will see that I have done everything to try and sort this out and that I have taken BR as a last resort and not an easy way out.
I may go and work as an employee for 12 months and get my wife to act as a director, she is co sec anyway. There is only tax money left in the company so again, not really an issue. She could probably buy my shares for £1 each which would be all above board. Once I become discharged, I presume I could take over again and buy my shares back.
You are correct in regaining control of the company post bankruptcy and your wife could give you the shares if she wanted. You are also correct in saying that you tried everything and the bankruptcy papers do ask if you proposed an IVA which was rejected by creditors. Good luck for the future and good to see you are sounding positive and do keep us posted.
I am so sorry that your IP didn't manage to get your other creditors to vote.
You've done your best, you can do no more.
The fact that they are going to get even less now is down to them and serves them right!
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
Hi,
I've been following your story throught and I don't think there's anyone tried as hard as you have done. Its the creditors loss what a shame its had to come to this...
I have been thinking about this for weeks and thought I'd get it resolved but hey, no such luck.
I look on the bright side, I've got my health, i've done nothing wrong to accumulate the debt, they can't send me to prison!!! I have tried my best to resolve it. I offered a b***** good return for them and they decided not to accept.
They were probably cutting their noses off to spite their faces but so be it!!!
I'll let you know how I get on. BR is my only option now so I've got to get my head around the implications!!
I think NR are wrong and it might take a bit of arm twisting to get them to change their minds. Get your IP to ring me and I'll explain how it can be done. He has to prepare a matrix showing the effect of a DMP with interest added over 5 or 6 years compared to an IVA - that should normally do the trick - it does when my firm shows them the figures which invarably show that under a DMP you end up owing more at the end than at the beginning. Have faith and get your IP to re-submit quoting "unfair trading practices"
Last edited by David Mond on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, David Mond, Insolvency Practitioner for over 46 years. Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year 2012, Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year finalist 2013 & 2014 awarded by Insolvency & Rescue Magazine and 2015 finalist for Personal Insolvency Firm of the Year.
An interesting point on DMPs from David - owing them more at the end than the beginning! Does this really happen in practice?
I cannot remember the last time I had an IVA rejected as a result of a Northern Rock vote. We do understand their criteria, but I personally find their staff very sensible and commercial. I feel that you have been very badly treated by the other creditors, and do wonder just how much effort your IP put into chasing votes.
We have been dealing with one case in the office over the last few weeks, where we needed one vote to outvote the Student Loans company and I applied to Court for an extension of time - very simple to do and we received the vote today. Your IP might like to consider using this procedure and trying a bit hard with Northern Rock and the other creditors.
My IP has basically said they have tried everything they can but NR are saying I could afford to pay debts normally and therefore I don't need an IVA. She said that they won't budge on their decision.
Of my other creditors, she couldn't get Barclays to vote or Capital One. These were being represented by the Insolvency Exchange.
Not sure why they wouldn't vote as surely they want some say in whether or not they will get any money back.
I sat down last night though and had a good think, and I think that BR will be the way forward for me now. I've not given up on an IVA as my IP has said that I should consider a DMP as NR will probably then sell their debt to Max Recovery who always vote in favour.
I just don't know what to do. As a director of a Ltd company, it makes things trickier but I am now considering all my options.
If I wanted to propose a new IVA via a different company, how long would I have to wait?
Barclays are represesented by KPMG and Capital One are represented by Grant Thornton - so I am not sure why your IP thinks the Insolvency Exchange would be involved.
And so far as I am aware, Northern Rock do not sell debts on to Max Recovery. I often re-propose IVAs which have been previously rejected - but if yours does not fit the NR affordability criteria, theuy are unlikely to change their minds so there would be no point.
If you are a property owner, NR may well proceed with charging order action, so this would turn them into a secured creditor and you could then re-propose the IVA without including their claim. Might be worth trying a temporary DMP for six months or so to see what happens.
An interesting post on a business IVA. Its obvious there are pork barrel politics going on here in this IVA case,no offence,and drawing on an aphorism - 'there is enough pork in all this skermish to keep the pigs in jobs' With this particular IVA the logistical benefits for all is thrown out of the window-Nonsense prevails rather than sense and sensibilty! NR rejecting 70p to the pound??? And why don't other creditors vote and jump in to break the stalemate.
David Mond - a question for you please - why isn't there a rule to make creditors vote? in the world of coporate shareholding - 'no vote' is often an abstention - signalling 'quiet fury' on the investors. When creditors do not vote in an IVA WHAT DOES IT MEAN????
Last edited by newdeal on Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
