Council Tax - Bailiff threatening

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Terry

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Post by Terry » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:24 am
Good morning all,

I've been a lurker on this site for some time now. I'm currently in the process of setting up an IVA (fingers crossed) with Melanie and her team.
Before I had decided to progress with an IVA and I was a complete financial mess, I missed some Council Tax payments last year. Without much in the way of correspondence, my council seems to have passed the debt to a Baliff. I arrived home last night to find an envelope saying that the bailiff had visited and to contact them to arrange payment. I phoned the man this morning and said that I had no money until next week but could we come to some arrangement for payment? In short, he was pretty rude, saying that I had owed this money for a year (patently untrue) and he wouldn't allow an arrangement to be made unless i paid £200 immediately. I simply dont have that money and have no way of getting it. He said, "well then I'll be round tomorrow to remove goods then" and put the phone down.
Now I realise that I dont actually have to let him in, but I really would like some advice on what to do next. I've read quite a bit this morning about what bailiffs can and cannot do, but I don't know the best way to progress with settling this outstanding money.
If I phoned the Council, would they take in to account that I am hopefully entering into and IVA?
Apologies for the long post. Great site by the way - it's been a godsend recently!!
 
 

animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:00 pm
I could be wrong but i thoguht it was only normal bailiffs that can't force entry.

My understanding was when it was a order on behalf of council tax if they have a warrant from a magistrates court they can force entry.

Probably not what you want to hear... [:(]
 
 

Terry

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Post by Terry » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:03 pm
Regarding forced entry and what they can/cannot do, I read this, which is specifically about bailiffs and Council Tax:
http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/
factsheet.php?page=02_bailiffs_and_council_tax

"If the bailiffs have not been into your home before to collect this debt, they have no right to come in. They cannot break in. You can choose not to let them in."

I'm just not sure the best way to go about getting this sorted!
 
 

animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:21 pm
Check the 2nd one down in the list :o(

got this from payplan

http://www.payplan.com/weblog/2007/06/21/
when-can-bailiffs-force-entry/

There are only certain conditions that allow bailiffs to force entry into a property

If a bailiff has previously had access or prevented from re-entering a property

A Tax collector with a warrant from a Magistrates court

Courts permission for commercial properties where there is no living accommodation

High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO) trying to levy goods at a commerical property

HCEO when goods have been moved to a third premises to prevent execution

Magistrates court warrants for unpaid fines

Where entry was gained from a different property and made a levy and are now following the goods

The person was advised to write to the court quoting the letter and ask under what circumstances the bailiff was allowed to force entry? The response was that neither the court nor the bailiff would use the letter again.

Good luck [:)]
Last edited by animaleyes76 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

Terry

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Post by Terry » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:28 pm
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not......
 
 

animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:34 pm
sorry, disagreeing.

"A Tax collector with a warrant from a Magistrates court"

If they turn up with one of these i think they can enter whether you like it or not. If however they do not have the warrant from the magistrates court they cannot.

That's my understanding
 
 

Terry

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Post by Terry » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:45 pm
I'm reading over and over again elsewhere (specifically regarding council tax) that they can only make peaceful entry. I may be completely wrong, which is more worrying.....
 
 

animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:51 pm
I hope I am wrong too.

Upon furhter reading (and from a government website) some more it seems only to apply to court fines.

What bailiffs can and can't do
If County Court bailiffs come to your home, you don't have to let them in.

They can't force their way in on their first visit, but they can enter through an open window, or an unlocked door. Forced entry includes pushing past you once you have opened the door to them or leaving their foot in the door to prevent you closing it. Such action would make the whole process illegal.

Bailiffs trying to recover money you owe to HMRC are allowed to break into your home, providing they have a magistrates' warrant.

Bailiffs recovering unpaid magistrates' court fines, however, do have the power to force entry.


Fingers x'd

Someone else on here will be bound to post. Looks like you will be okay though :o)

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/
ManagingDebt/DebtsAndArrears/DG_10034289
Last edited by animaleyes76 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

sblack

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Post by sblack » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:54 pm
Hi,
This extract is taken from Swindon Borough Council website, I would have thought that this policy is national.
If I were you I would clarify which ruling is correct with a forum expert later as it seems to be different to animaleyes interpretation.

Why are bailiffs involved in collecting council tax?

If you have not made a suitable payment arrangement, provided employment details (for an attachment of earnings) or confirmed entitlement to state benefits (for an attachment to Income Support or Jobseekers Allowance) then the council has the power, under a liability order, to use bailiffs to collect any amount of Council Tax due.

This will add more to the costs you have to pay.


What do the bailiffs do?

The bailiffs recover the debt you owe by removing and selling your goods. They can remove goods up to the value of the money you owe, plus their own costs. The goods will then be sold at public auction. Removal or sale of your goods may be avoided by either making payment in full or agreeing payment via a short-term arrangement with the bailiffs. If you ask, the bailiffs must provide you with a receipt for any monies paid to them or to the bailiff's office.


Can the bailiffs force entry?

Bailiffs are not allowed to break open a door but may enter your property if a door is open, or if it is closed and can be opened without using force. They can also enter through an open window. When the bailiffs are inside your property, they can force any internal locked doors.


What goods can the bailiffs take?

The bailiff is allowed to remove any of your goods, other than those required to meet your family's and your own basic domestic needs i.e. clothing and bedding, or those goods such as tools, required personally by you in your employment.


How can I stop the bailiffs taking goods?

You can keep your goods in your property if you have done one of the following:

Signed a Close Possession agreement for the bailiff to stay in your property until you have paid your debt or the goods are removed for sale;
Signed a Walking Possession agreement that impounds the goods so the bailiff can leave and return at a later date if you do not pay the debt.
Before making an arrangement to pay the outstanding debt, the bailiff will normally impound your goods and ask you to sign a Walking Possession agreement to hand over the goods if you do not pay. If the bailiff does return to remove the goods, you do not have to be present.

The bailiff will come to your home with a removal van and remove furniture and belongings (including vehicles) to the value of the outstanding debt plus charges. These will then be put in secure storage prior to being sold at auction.


What happens if the bailiff cannot collect the Council Tax?

If the bailiff cannot collect the Council Tax and there are not enough goods to remove, we will tell the magistrates' court so that we can issue a committal summons. This means that you must go to court for an enquiry into your financial circumstances. If you do not go to court, you may be arrested and brought before the court. We will then apply for you to go to prison and if found guilty, you could face a prison sentence of up to three months.
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animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:56 pm
sblack,

yup, i think i was thinking more of hmrc and court fines.

Sorry to confuse.

Dont let them in! lol
 
 

zoe

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Post by zoe » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:30 pm
Hello
has any levy been signed??
 
 

Terry

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Post by Terry » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:37 pm
I'm not entirely sure what that is! Is that something I would have signed?
 
 

zoe

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Post by zoe » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:03 pm
yes
they have to visit the property to list goods which you would sign it is called a "walking possession" agreement
 
 

Terry

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Post by Terry » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:21 pm
No, they haven't been in the house at all yet. From what i gather, once they do (sounds like the old "may i step inside to discuss this" trick), they seem to have a hell of a lot of power. I've read somewhere that if they can't collect the debt, they usually pass it back to the council who may need you to go to court. I'm thinking this may be the only way for me to get them to accept lower payments.
 
 

zoe

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Post by zoe » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:55 pm
They can levy on things in your garden too so it is not just in the house. How long do you have left to go before your creditors meeting?
They cannot break into your house, however if any doors are unlocked or windows they can get in that way so make sure everything bolted especially back gate. Have you called them or your council?
Another thing is that they cannot take anything unless they have walking possession or a signed levy. These are scare tactics and i suggest you report to the Council or the bailiff company - can i ask who they are?
Last edited by zoe on Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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