TIX - an interesting article

[catullus]

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/14082007/35/big ... oblem.html

For those that are interested in the IVA world this is an interesting article that summarises where we currently are in the current battle between the Banks and IP's.

In defence of the downtrodden IP I'd just like to draw out some of the weasle statements made by TIX

1 IVA's may be getting an approval rate of 80% but that's only
because, we IP's, knowledgeable of what returns the banks are
demanding advise so many clients that they'll never get an IVA
through.So many more worthy cases should be approved if it wasn't
for the artificial hurdles that the banks put up in front of us.

2 So we have it,an IVA is now a COMMODITISED PRODUCT.What ignorance.
I bet if Mr Hover was in financial difficulty he wouldn't be happy
feeling that he was being shoved through a sausage machine and was
being denied the right to bespoke, professional and independent
advice.

3 He refers to average fees of £7500 but he doesn't mention that
17.5% of that is VAT and we earn the net fee over 5 years provided
the debtor sticks with the IVA.

4 And the final laughable point is the claim that more people would
do IVA's if the fees were lower.Why?? After all, its the Banks
that pick up the bill, not the debtor. IP's are perfectly prepared
to compete with each other on price. There's already signs of that
happening but the Banks want a reduction that would drive a lot of
us out of the market and they have the ability to dictate to us at
the moment by virtue of their vote in the IVA. Its a bit like
going in to a shop and demanding that you buy something at a
particular price and, announcing if refused, well I won't buy
from you and I'll make sure noone else does either.

If it wasn't so serious you could almost laugh at the ways that TIX and the banks will twist the reality to almost make them sound like the good guys!!

[bluemoon]

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/14082007/35/big ... oblem.html

For those that are interested in the IVA world this is an interesting article that summarises where we currently are in the current battle between the Banks and IP's.

In defence of the downtrodden IP I'd just like to draw out some of the weasle statements made by TIX

1 IVA's may be getting an approval rate of 80% but that's only
because, we IP's, knowledgeable of what returns the banks are
demanding advise so many clients that they'll never get an IVA
through.So many more worthy cases should be approved if it wasn't
for the artificial hurdles that the banks put up in front of us.

2 So we have it,an IVA is now a COMMODITISED PRODUCT.What ignorance.
I bet if Mr Hover was in financial difficulty he wouldn't be happy
feeling that he was being shoved through a sausage machine and was
being denied the right to bespoke, professional and independent
advice.

3 He refers to average fees of £7500 but he doesn't mention that
17.5% of that is VAT and we earn the net fee over 5 years provided
the debtor sticks with the IVA.

4 And the final laughable point is the claim that more people would
do IVA's if the fees were lower.Why?? After all, its the Banks
that pick up the bill, not the debtor. IP's are perfectly prepared
to compete with each other on price. There's already signs of that
happening but the Banks want a reduction that would drive a lot of
us out of the market and they have the ability to dictate to us at
the moment by virtue of their vote in the IVA. Its a bit like
going in to a shop and demanding that you buy something at a
particular price and, announcing if refused, well I won't buy
from you and I'll make sure noone else does either.

If it wasn't so serious you could almost laugh at the ways that TIX and the banks will twist the reality to almost make them sound like the good guys!!

That's not always strictly true though, or have i been given the wrong information ?
I had a conversation with someone yesterday who has just come out of an IVA & this happened to them......
They owed £36,000 & were paying £310 a month into the IVA, after 4 years (i think) they had to do an equity release & had to pay out £28,000 approx as that was what was left to pay after they'd paid £15,000 into the IVA (£7,000 of that was the IP fees), so in reality they paid £43,000 in total & they paid the fees & not the creditors.
I'm NOT having a go at anyone but if i've got this persons story right then it was them that paid the fees & NOT the creditors.
A similar thing is probably going to happen to us (if it gets accepted), we'll end up paying all of it back (due to the equity release in year 4)and also the IP fees on top....not that i begrudge the fees .

[mish1953]

Its pretty poor that TIX who represent the creditors are trying to take over the process - I can understand why - I just dont like it.

I would have thought that the Insolvency Service need to come down on them like a ton of bricks .. they arent going to listen to the debtors and are going to claim that the IP's are just fighting their corner.. so it comes down to the appropriate govt agency fighting for the debtors --

Pigs might fly
Mish

[catullus]

You are quite correct but the number of IVA's where creditors are paid in full is/should be tiny but actually is greater than it should be by virtue of the banks demanding higher contributions in to IVA's.

In those situations you are quite correct that the debtor should take a keen interest in the level of the IP's fees but I would still insist that they represent value for money.

Far far more debtors who will never be able to pay their debts in full are being kept out of the IVA procedure, than debtors who will be able to repay in full within a 5 year IVA but don't do an IVA because of the IP's fees

[Adam Davies]

Hi
My concerns are that the IPs fees are going to be restricted to 15% of the monthly IVA payment.
So a £200 per month IVA will net the IP £1800 over five years to supervise the agreement,a £400 per month IVA will net the IP £3600 over five years for the same work...........how can that make sense and do you not think that anyone with a £200 disposible income is going to find it hard to find an IVA provider to propose their case.
I am in agreement to link payment to realisation so that the quality of service lasts throughout the five year term but,as in any service industry,low fees generally equal low service and it,s the service side of the industry,as far as Joe Public is concerned,that needs the biggest shake up.The issue between the banks and IVA providers is at the expense of the debtor at the moment.
Regards


Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[MelanieGiles]

Just a point to the poster who raised the issue of having to pay fees on top of the amount paid to creditors - just think how much money was saved by not paying ongoing interest - a lot more than the IP fees I reckon.


Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[catullus]

I agree completely Andy

I think that my original post was a little IP centric but you're completely right. The way TIX are trying to structure fees will make IVA's below £300 (and I'm tempted to say £400) uneconomic to do.

And that is the entire objective of this underhand exercise

And your point about service levels is well made.But I don't think that TIX could give a stuff about service (to the debtor) they want a commodity-quote.
I've got a feeling that that little slip of the tongue might just come back to bite Mr Hover where it hurts.

[bluemoon]

Just a point to the poster who raised the issue of having to pay fees on top of the amount paid to creditors - just think how much money was saved by not paying ongoing interest - a lot more than the IP fees I reckon.


Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

True enough but don't people have to pay interest of 8% per annum on top of any equity release ?

[MelanieGiles]

Not usually - this is more often required under windfall payments.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk