payments will total more than my original debt

[ivamole]

Sorry Melanie. It's probably an academic point but an IVA is not a contract. If it were, the jurisdiction in IVAs would be through the civil courts and supervisors would be open to civil law right of action (King v Anthony).

The authorities all refer to the 'statutory binding' of IVAs and the courts have the power to intervene on fees at their own discretion e.g. Re. Julie O'Sullivan.

For practical purposes whether an IVA is or is not a contract does not, of course, really matter that much until things go wrong - and that is normally when the courts become involved in any matter whether that be an insolvency matter or anything else.

The fact that they do not generally intervene does not change the law.

By the way, I did not say that there were statutory provisions regarding IVA fees, I simply said that SIP 9 and the decision of Registrar Baister would provide points of reference in any challenge to excessive and disproportionate fees made through the courts.

This is the only way to challenge IP fees because the professional bodies will not intervene on charges.

That's why I think a 'one stop' regulator or ombudsman would benefit everyone involved in personal insolvencies and, in the longer term, it would probably also protect the position of conscientious IPs like yourself.

[neverending]

Melanie
Quote"It is generally the creditors who agree the basis of the IP's fees under SIP 9. And in all of you signing up to the propsals you signed up to, you also agreed the basis of those fees. I assume that no one forced anyone into an IVA with their eyes closed!"

As you know most people in severe debt are blinded by the position that they find themselves in and because of that can sign up to the first sympathetic company that they come accross.The cost regarding fees is the last thing on a persons mind,all that interests them is how much a month that they will pay and the fact of "will it be accepted" this is why they need the protection of a well regulated industry.
I am sure that since joining this forum you have found that not all IPs seem to be as conscientious and fair as yourself.

[MelanieGiles]

Guys

I take on board all of the points (apart from the contractual one - where I stand firm!) and agree with you entirely. The point is that the regulators are gradually starting to realise that there is bad advice out there and they are doing something about it. This is maybe too late for some people, but this will set a firm playing ground for the future so that people do not find themselves in the wilderness of a "contractual" nightmare they agreed to without realising the implications of same.

We may be a self-regulated profession, but trust me that the things that regularly are raised on this forum are at the forefront of the regulators minds at present and changes will happen shortly - the wheels are already turning!

Of course the costs are of little consequence to most debtors, although in my practice always explain to debtors the basis of the charges creditors (or themselves in a 100p scenario) will have to bear. The reality is that when the majority of people actually can see wood for the trees post-IVA, they become far more aware of things they felt had little importance at the time, such as costs. And dare I say it, in a small number of cases, the IVA becomes the bugbear that the original creditors actually were - as doing an IVA is a serious commitment and not one to be taken lightly.

I am not saying that all of us get it right all of the time, but most of us do try to the best of our ability! Your comments as ever are extremely welcome, as is the debate which follows which encourages thought pattern at all levels. Keep posting!

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[uni]

Folks,

I seem to have stirred up a bees nest here. The facxt is that I signed the paperwork and that syas they have the open cheque book thingy. Therefore they have the right to charge what they have, that's life. The best way I can see forward is a full and final settlement. That will stop the fees being run up for another 2 1/2 years, it will save me paying back my debt, the fees and interest if it comes to it and I can get my life back on track. Once I have my certificate, I can write all the letters of complaint to Payplan, regularitory bodies, MPs, Watchdog etc.

So, advice is needed, what is a likely sum that is most likely to be accepted. Here's the figures:

Original Debt: £25,000
Monthly payment: £425
Paid so far: £13000

These figures are all approximate, I'm at the girlfriends house so dont have the exact numbers.

If I made an offer of £6750, this would bring me upto £19750 which is 75% of the total original debt. Plus, by paying it now, that saves the creditors loosing £4000 in Payplan fees.

Anyone got any ideas on if they would accept it? Am I being too generous and will get my hand bitten off? Am I not aiming high enough and will just get rejected?

[MelanieGiles]

What dividend were you originally returning to creditors? And where will the lump sum come from? you will also need to ask your IP what his costs are to date, and what he intends to charge you for putting the variation forward. The latter cost should be no more than £1,500.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk