Not so sure... Northern Rock..

[OPTIMIST12]

Can I just say -

I do not agree with the euphoria over the problems being encountered by Northern Rock. They are a commercial company - credit is a two way thing. How would we feel if Northern Rock posted to poke fun at people in IVAs or BR whose plans had gone awry? They could laugh and say that we promised to do this or that and failed but - ha ha - they lost their job or their partner or something. Northern Rock entered into credit agreements in good faith and obviously their customers were happy with their terms and conditions at that time. If they do not support IVAs then that is their choice - we as debtors signed an agreement with them and should think before slagging them off. I bet when those with Northern Rock had their loans or mortgages granted they said Thank You to Northern Rock. Sorry - but I do not take any pleasure in laughing at others misfortune. What if Northern Rock are taken over - what about their staff who lose their jobs when whoever takes over cut their branches and positions - will we laugh at them? They have done nothing wrong.

Sorry - but at the end of the day SOME of us have got into problems of our own making - SOME have got into problems through things we had no control over. The whole thing is many faceted. I dont know why NR were so anti-IVA and will personally be forever grateful to all those creditors who supported my IVA (NR were not one of my creditors).

But what if NRs problems are a sign of things to come - who knows what havoc this could play with the whole debt / credit scenario?

Good Night!!!!

[scaredkez]

optomist i do agree with you, and i am wondering what knock on affect this will have on other banks etc, i wouldn't like to think of anyone losing their job and ending up in the same position as us on here, it is laughable, that NR are in this position, but not for those working for them.but at the end of the day it won't be the breaking of them according to some.

kerri

Please view my blog at: http://scaredkez.blogs.iva.co.uk/

[Adam Davies]

Hi optomist
NR have caused many people alot of suffering with their anti IVA stance.They have also angered IPs by suggesting that 9 out of 10 IVAs should never have been proposed to them.We have people who are in serious debt and being denied access to a goverment approved solution that has helped tens of thousands of people,like you and me.
NR are in the news because the vast majority of it,s funding comes from other credit lines as they do not have huge deposits of cash,like most other banks.They have played hardball with regards to helping people who are insolvent and I guess it,s hard for people who have been forced into bankruptcy or neverending DMPs,rather than an IVA,to be sympathetic.
regards


Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[Soulgrowth]

I intuitevly suspect that it is a worrying trend though for the banks to find themselves in trouble. I was reading the stories in the Mail yesterday of the people who have their life savings involved, there was one gentleman who tried to draw out his 1 million pounds and had to barricade hismself in and the police had to be called as NR would not, not surprisngly, allow him to do so.

My own experience with debt and such like is that I would trust a bank very little nowadays to look after my money (any that I might in the future have that is!) and can see why our grandparents kept their monies under the matress! I would tend to do the sname nowadays with my hard earnt cash!

I remember once reading on one of the brilliant websites associated with this great forum a potted history on debt, bankruptcy etc from times way back ... I wish I could find it again ... it very much supports the philosophy of "what goes around, comes around".

Debbie

Debbie

www.babynamings.co.uk

www.soulgrowth.co.uk

[Skippy]

I have absolutely no sympathy for the plight of Northern Rock after seeing the distress their 'no IVA' stance has caused some people on here. Maybe if they had been more accepting to IVAs they may have got some return, rather than forcing people into bankruptcy where NR will get nothing. The NR view appears to be that people have brought their situation on themselves (and maybe some have) but by proposing an IVA they have faced their problems and are trying to repay as much money as they can afford. Surely a return of 40p in the pound is better than nothing?

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is the present - a gift to make the most of.

View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/

[lily]

I dont think anyone of us on this forum would find fun in any individuals plight of not being able to repay their debts.

Just like we are responsible for trying to pay back as much as we can. They could at least look at the individuals circumstances instead of turning their back. so many people here have been forced into BR because of the actions of this one creditor. It is not only unfair to the debtor but also to the other more positive creditors who have been denied the funds also. Sympathy? I dont think so.

lily

[mikebdomain]

OPTIMIST12 I do have to agree with a lot of what you say.

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[aguise]

Optimist I also see what you are saying, but totally agree with Lily, their voting criteria has made them unpopular on the forum and some of their decisions have caused the same anguish to those suffering with debt they have not made individual decisions on proposals , to the point that shows no consideration for the individual debtor, other creditors or their own shareholders.Not forgetting the IP's who put good proposals together only to be refused outright.

Ang

Please visit my blog at http://aguise.blogs.iva.co.uk/

[thebear29uk]

Hi all

Posted this elsewhere but seems more relevant on this post.

I can totally understand all the posts here where members with NR as a creditor are taking a certain amount of satisfaction in their current predicament.

I think the turn of events is systematic of our tendency to read too much into what is happening and panic. NR were not in financial trouble but merely had a cashflow problem. They could easily have repaid the loan plus interest from the Bank of England.

However by reporting it so extensively this has led to people rushing to withdraw their savings. Seeing those queues forming outside branches reminded me of Argentina but we are not a nation where our banking system is about to crash. It was pointed out to me by somebody in the financial sector that far from taking their money out the investors should have sat tight as, in order to improve their cashflow, NR would most likely improve their savings interest rates going forward.

The outcome now is that although the company remains extremely solvent, due to their share price crashing there is now a real threat of a hostile takeover. Whether or not a new regime will lead to a re-think on their policy over IVA's is debatable as, quite often they are owed significantly more than other creditors due to their together mortgage and charging orders can result in a better return for them.

All that said I'm sure this weekend has been a troubled time for senior executives of NR. Sleepless nights, short tempers around loved ones, worrying about what will happen, stress levels through the roof.

But I understand why this will merit little sympathy on this forum.

Regards

Dave

[OPTIMIST12]

Thank you for those comments.

I do understand (from this excellent forum!!) that Northern Rock have caused many peoples IVA proposals to fail before they even get off the ground and know that if I had been one of those people I would have been absolutely gutted - and probably angry. I would never make light of the failure of someones IVA.

But I would still argue that it is not fair to rubbish Northern Rock now that they are in difficulty. They HAVE helped an awful lot
of people by offering them loans and mortgages where maybe other companies would have declined. The vast majority of these people will be happy with their service and will be in the fortunate position - unlike most of us - of being in a position to keep up their payments throughout the agreed term. That is not to say that I understand or agree with their policy on IVAs BUT that is the route the company has chosen to take and - to be fair - it is their business.

I just feel sorry for the hundreds of ordinary NR employees who are now worried about their future and that of their families - and who are also probably receiving (understandable) anger from worried customers. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the companys IVA policy they are just doing their job.

On the other hand I appreciate that other posters have a completely opposite view and I respect tha. Thats what makes this forum so interesting.

Apologies if my original post caused any raised blood pressures but I shall stick my neck out and say that I stand by it!!!!

Thanks.

[Adam Davies]

Hi
It,s good that we all have different opinions,otherwise the forum would be a bit boring !!
Just to keep the debate going I do agree with you that it,s upto NR how they run their business but they can,t pretend to abide by the Banking code that states "We will consider cases of financial difficulty sympathetically and positively"if they have a near blanket refusal of IVAs.
Regards



Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[OPTIMIST12]

Hi Andy -

Thanks for your reply.

In my case I had 3 (highly respectable) creditors who voted against my IVA proposal but fortunately (for me!!!) had enough others by value who got it through. I dont know what criteria the "anti" voters used but I respect their decision. I guess the Banking Code is open to argument as to what is considered the best way forward for a specific debtor? Clearly NR have taken a line in this respect and it is difficult to say that their stance is wrong or right.

How many other companies have failed to consider cases of financial difficulty "sympathetically and positively" before then issuing either new credit cards or increased credit limits to customers? I think that it is unfair to single out Northern Rock.

I know from my own experience that creditors continue to dish out increased credit when it should be obvious from Credit Reference Agency records that it is not appropriate to do so - and YES - it is also the debtors fault (for example ME - for accepting these facilities). The honourable exception - in my case at least - was Capital One (a VERY responsible company who did NOT increase my credit limit).

[thebigfacthunt]

First time poster but made aware of it from my IP. NR a creditor and borderline 25%. Rcommended that I speak to them which I did yesterday. Nice lady who sounded fed up. Given the recent press coverage felt really sorry for her and didn't want to give her a hard time after all it's not her fault (don't shoot the messanger springs to mind) given wht has happened. She did her best to try to explain NR policy and I can see where she is coming from. I took my loan over 25 years just over two years ago. She asked me whether I could pay the secured loan off in the next 5 years. Of course I said no. She therefore said i was creating my own insolvency because my payment was assessed over 25 years not 5. I can see the logic in this. Is there anything I'm missing? [?]

[catullus]

Interesting post.

I don't think that you are missing anything, but I think that the lady from NR was.

All money is borrowed over different terms and each loan has its repayment schedule. But the whole thing gets turned on its head when you have not got enough money to pay all your monthly loan repyments.

At that point, as your lenders will be only too quick to point out, all the loans become (theoretically) repayable immediately because that is what their terms dictate.

So the lady from NR who asks about your ability to paay off the NR loan over 5 years IN ISOLATION is ignoring all the other debts that you have.To say that you have created your own insolvency is absolute nonsense.

It's like saying to NR, if you had to pay off all of your depositors within a week AND all the loans that you have taken from other banks would you be able to do it.

I think that you know the answer to that question.

[OPTIMIST12]

But surely Catullus the whole thing is not black and white.

I can understand the argument that SOME people (I am not aiming this at ANY way at the previous poster) have "created their own insolvency" by virtue of taking out committments that they could not reasonably expect to repay. Many others - I imagine the vast majority - will have taken credit that they COULD at the time of asking have reasonably expected to repay but for whom something subsequently happened in their lives or circumstances that threw everything on its head and shattered their financial planning.

I would be SO SO interested to hear from someone high up in Northern Rock as to why they have decided on their particular stance on IVAs. Obviously there must be a sound argument for it even if many do not agree with it.