IVA or DMP question

[Paul.61]

Hi folks,

Firstly apologies because this is going to be a long one. My main question is why was my wife put in to a DMP instead of an IVA.

Nearly 6 years ago now we hit the buffers and had to get help and we chose Payplan (who I now despise with a passion, truly awful company). I was clueless and had no knowledge of IVA's and DMP's and just allowed Payplan to explain and recommend as to how we progressed forward. I would have took advise from a chimp at the time if it meant getting out of the financial hole we were in.

I was advised to take the IVA route while my wife was told to go down the DMP route. From memory, I am fairly sure the reason my wife was put in a DMP was down to the amount owed.

Debts in my name were approaching 60k
Debts in my wifes name were approx 10k
We had one joint account owing 4k

So at the time I thought my wife had debts of £12,000 but recently realised it would have been nearer £14k because the full amount of the joint debt would have been included and not halved as I had originally thought.

Having now been through the IVA and spent hours reading this forum, I have a much better understanding of things but I cannot understand why my wife was not put on an IVA or a joint one if joint ones exist? That is my main question and any pointers as to why would be greatly appreciated.

But things get worse and have a bearing on the above question.

I admit to ignoring my wifes DMP, I just let it roll on over the years. I put all my energy in to getting through my IVA which is now complete with my completion certificate and my name is now off the register and the plan was then to concentrate on the DMP. My wife had never received a statement and back in March 2017 I asked her to contact Payplan and get an up to date statement so I could start planning ahead. The statement showed she owed just shy of 5k. I had no idea how much we had paid over the years but I'll admit to being pleasantly surprised. She then received another statement in March 2018 showing she owed around £4,500. By now I had completed my IVA and could start planning to clear the DMP. Roughly 6 weeks ago I got my wife to phone and get the exact figure to fully pay it up. Payplan came back with a figure of 19k. I laughed and said to my wife its a mistake, don't worry.

We fired an email off querying the amount and had a reply stating the amount was correct and in 2016 a staff member in Payplan had 'done a typo'. She said sorry and do I want to make the payment? To jump from £4,500 to nearly 19k was a shock. To cut a very long story short, over the next 48 hours Payplan came up with 3 more different figures and not one of them made any sense, all these 'correct' figures varied by thousands and never once did we get an explanation as to how they arrived at each figure, it was as if they had plucked figures from thin air. In one email, the first paragraph confirmed the figure then the second paragraph started by saying, oh actually that should be 15k, sorry about that and not a word of explanation!!

From what I understand now, the typo was to the tune of 10k and went unnoticed by Payplan for well over 2 years and further to this back in 2014, Payplan realised one of the debts put in to my IVA was joint and should have been included in my wife's DMP so Payplan decided it was ok and fair to just add it to my wife's DMP, mid term without any kind of notification what so ever. Payplan had never sent any statements so we were unaware of the 10k typo when it actually happened or the fact another debt had been added so when we requested a statement in March 2017 everything looked right to us.

So now going back to my IVA or DMP query, if Payplan had not messed up on day one and included the other account that was joint, my wife actually had debts of 19k and in my opinion most certainly should be in an IVA?

I should add that in late 2013, Shoosmiths solicitors started acting on behalf of NatWest and it was their involvement that brought up the fact Payplan had not included a joint account in my wife's DMP and we only found this out in the last 6 weeks.

My second question is, with the way Payplan have messed up my wife's DMP account and throwing figures around like confetti, do I have a right to feel aggrieved? My IVA from the very start to the very end was a shambles and run in the same careless, couldn't give a damn attitude.

6 years down the line, my wife still owes £14,500

[Foggy]

Yes, you do have the right to feel aggrieved and also the right to a full (and correct) explanation. Unfortunately, other than a formal complaint to Payplan, which you can then escalate to their regulatory body, you have no avenues or organisations which can help --- a situation I tried to bring to the government's attention a while back, but received little support. The regulators will not actually intervene but will give a slap on the wrist to Payplan, if they feel so inclined, or impose a fine.

[Paul.61]

Yes, you do have the right to feel aggrieved and also the right to a full (and correct) explanation. Unfortunately, other than a formal complaint to Payplan, which you can then escalate to their regulatory body, you have no avenues or organisations which can help --- a situation I tried to bring to the government's attention a while back, but received little support. The regulators will not actually intervene but will give a slap on the wrist to Payplan, if they feel so inclined, or impose a fine.

Thanks Foggy. In your opinion, do you think my wife should have been put on an IVA from the outset?

I have already made a formal complaint to Payplan and their response was unacceptable and gave me no further answers other than those I already had and was full of contradictions.

So, are you saying that even if I complain as far up the chain as possible, even if Payplan are totally at fault, there is nothing I can do? I am so very lucky to have access to some top legal people and I have already shown one the paperwork. He said it defies belief what he read and called Payplan's complaints team on my wife's behalf (just as a friend and not as her legal rep) to try and decipher some of the rubbish they had written. I think he had four specific questions and to each one he asked he got silence followed by "I don't know".

If the regulators will not step in, even if Payplan are in the wrong, I assume I can make use of my contacts and take my complaint forward that way?

Thanks

[Foggy]

Yes, you do have the right to feel aggrieved and also the right to a full (and correct) explanation. Unfortunately, other than a formal complaint to Payplan, which you can then escalate to their regulatory body, you have no avenues or organisations which can help --- a situation I tried to bring to the government's attention a while back, but received little support. The regulators will not actually intervene but will give a slap on the wrist to Payplan, if they feel so inclined, or impose a fine.

Thanks Foggy. In your opinion, do you think my wife should have been put on an IVA from the outset?

I have already made a formal complaint to Payplan and their response was unacceptable and gave me no further answers other than those I already had and was full of contradictions.

So, are you saying that even if I complain as far up the chain as possible, even if Payplan are totally at fault, there is nothing I can do? I am so very lucky to have access to some top legal people and I have already shown one the paperwork. He said it defies belief what he read and called Payplan's complaints team on my wife's behalf (just as a friend and not as her legal rep) to try and decipher some of the rubbish they had written. I think he had four specific questions and to each one he asked he got silence followed by "I don't know".

If the regulators will not step in, even if Payplan are in the wrong, I assume I can make use of my contacts and take my complaint forward that way?

Thanks

You can certainly sue them yourself -- or at least threaten to ( that might make them listen). Whether a DMP or an IVA would have been right at the time is impossible to tell without being privvy to the full picture as it was then. There was a time, judging from what ws posted on hre by members that Payplan seemed to be in the habit of putting people in a DMP and converting it to an IVA some years later --- of course there could have been very good reasons for this (we never get the full picture here, from both sides), but the prctice ... or at least us being told about it ... seems to have ceased.

[Paul.61]

Thanks Foggy, your input is as always greatly appreciated.

[Mrs_Brown]

Foggy can you redo your petition? I am sure in light of all the recent credit fix blunders there might be more interest. I signed the original one (insert halo here!)

[Paul.61]

Hello again,

Sorry to ask more questions but I really need to get my head round all this.

I have asked for everything by way of a subject data request and am now in possession of most phone calls and all the paperwork relating to my wife's DMP and the amount of stuff they have wrong is actually quite frightening but at this time I am just interested as to why my wife did not get put in to an IVA with me.

I have listened to the phone call and the adviser said that now they have all the facts and figures, I will be going down the IVA route but they cannot offer this to my wife, she will have to go in to a debt management plan. I asked why and was told it was her debt compared to the equity in the house. I obviously took the experts advice and that is how we proceeded. Here are the bare bones at the time, can anyone please tell me if this was a genuine reason for not being allowed an IVA.

Wife's debt was a little over 14k
Three debts with 2 different creditors.
40k equity in the house (80k in total as it is a joint mortgage).
From the outset, she paid £175 a month. However, Payplan were made aware that we were due to lose approx £300 to £400 in income per month in the coming months which duly happened and both my IVA and my Wife's DMP payment dropped drastically. For the last few years, my wife has only been paying £64 per month.
We are/were both in full time employment.
We started this process late in 2012 but our plans didn't actually start until early 2013.

Does this info allow anyone to make an educated guess as to why the IVA route was refused?

As I mentioned in my previous posts above, another account that was actually in joint names and not just in mine was added one year down the line in 2014 and increased her debt by 5k. Surely at this point she should have been advised to change to an IVA? After 6 years, she still owes well over 14k.

Many thanks

[Foggy]

Some creditors do not, as a matter of policy, agree to an IVA where the debt is small and equity will more than cover it if it comes to it. Maybe one of those was in the mix and Payplan were aware of this possibility whereby proposing an IVA might force their hand ... all conjecture, but life, and IVA's, are seldom black and white.