I think this is only fair. We deal with HMRC on a daily basis and while there are times we may feel they are difficult to deal with their decisions tend to be consistent and had they voted this CVA through there would have been grounds for others to say Rangers got off lightly.
One of the difficulties with HMRC accepting a CVA is there is no requirement on the IPs to do Director's Disqualification reports which will have to be done in a liquidation. While the administrators would have to do the reports they would not be able to bring wrongful trading proceedings and such like which a liquidator could do. HMRC often prefer the'rigour' of a liquidator's investigations rather than a CVA supervisor and given that the CVA will probably return nothing anyway I don't blame HMRC.
I suppose in a `business` sense it`s a fair and rightful decision, it`s tricky when it`s a football club that is being dealt with though, especially one as big as Rangers.
Football clubs have been given special treatment in the past in similar circumstances, as the HMRC have not wanted to be seen as the `Executioner` of historical clubs that have been around and been supported for generations.
Leeds United and Portsmouth are recent cases of big clubs staring extinction in the face, they are just the tip of the iceberg...Look at Cardiff City, actually changing their kit colour from blue to red and their club crest from a bluebird to a dragon, because it`s more appealing to the Asian market which the club will be marketed in by it`s new owner and `saviour`...A club like Cardiff having to sell it`s soul and identity to survive
Ultimately it`s the fans of these clubs, lots of whom dedicate much of their lives to supporting these teams, that lose out.
Last edited by Goosed on Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea".
My understanding is that two things are taking place here.
HMRC want liquidation so that they can then persue the old regime through he courts as the legal entity stays as was whereas if Rangers were allowed out of the CVA then the same legal entity has moved on with a change of ownership. Somehow HMRC see this as the best way forward as the HMRC want their cash or at least to make an example
The administrator's role is to get the price possible for the creditors. The business needs to be sold either as a going concern or broken up. I suspect that breaking up the assets/ land etc would be subject to all sorts of legal challenges, claims and counter claims. The land would remain derelict for years until resolved. Creditors prefer real cash today as opposed to a promise of some cash in the future hence why it will be flogged off cheaper than its true future net worth.
For what it's worth I dont think the fans will be the ones to suffer. A Newco would have to go before the SPL who would decide what if any sanction to apply against the newly formed Rangers. This could be anything from a points deduction to starting again in one of the lower leagues. Arguarbly, clubs like Hearts would benefit from that with increased chance of entry to the Champions League etc. BUT, no Rangers means alot less money coming into the league, especially by way of sponsorship as the current Sky deal explicitly says that Rangers and Celtic HAVE to be in the SPL. Also factor in lower gate receipts etc and its hard to see how the league could survive without Rangers in it.
By the way, the Newco will be bought for £5.5million, of which £5million goes to the Administrator, so Green gets the ground, training ground and all other assets for the extra £0.5million. Not a bad deal if he pulls it all off, what's Hampden worth??
It's hard to predict how this will pan out but sadly I think that HMRC will lose out again and still need to find a football club to make an example of. It should have been Portsmouth, really.
Being a Portsmouth fan, I'm glad the HMRC didn't make an example out of us....I agree that it is the fans that suffer, and those poor small business's that don't get paid.
We are still in dire trouble, and I hope us and Rangers manage to sort something out...and that there is a stop to this sort of thing happening to other clubs.
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by mrl211102
Being a Portsmouth fan, I'm glad the HMRC didn't make an example out of us....I agree that it is the fans that suffer, and those poor small business's that don't get paid.
We are still in dire trouble, and I hope us and Rangers manage to sort something out...and that there is a stop to this sort of thing happening to other clubs.
I didnt mean that in a vindictive sense, and on a personal level I wouldnt want to see any established team go. My comment was based on what the club did and how they avoided paying HMRC what it was due. This sort of thing doesnt happen to clubs...owners and directors at clubs take a decision to do it. I feel for the Pompey fans, they have no control over what the owners did...you got an FA Cup, but now you have League 1 and no sign of a recovery.
Really I should have said that Pompey, Leeds, Palace should have been the example(s).
As for Rangers, I have little sympathy for the club, for the reasons in my last post.
As a Hearts fan I can safely say that as rangers have cheated by not paying taxes they should be kicked out the league and made to start again in our 3rd division. Sporting integrity must come before loss of income otherwise whats the point in playing football.
As for the sale to Mr Green I expect that to be challenged as to buy rangers home ground(ibrox park, not hampden park which is our national stadium)plus training facilities for a mere 5.5 million is ludicrious. You could pay double that and rent it back for 2 million a year and after 5 years be 2 million in profit every year after that!!!
The club is being investigated for paying players using double contracts etc which were not declared to the governing body so theres lots more to worry about.
The league would be able to change its current voting structure if rangers were kicked down the divisions as well which is vital to our game as just now the glasgow giants monopolise the league with our stupid 10-2 voting system so if they dont like something they stick together and the other ten teams cant make any changes!!
Paul
Discharged today the 8th feb 2012. View is much brighter now.
Continuing to rebuild our credit worthiness.
Just picking upon the point about my own club, Cardiff City, the town is devastated to see our bluebirds having to become redbirds, and blue has always been the football colour, with red more associated with rugby, but the lifeline of the club depends upon Malasyan money so we will have to lump it. (Hope Julie does not read this post as she is bound to be gloating!)
Can't comment on Rangers - my Scottish office are fanatic Celtic supporters!
As for HMRC, I think that they are fed up with football insolvencies, the prior treatment of "football creditors" and the fact that I understand that most clubs outside of the premiership are actually technically insovent. Some of the wages that are paid to some of these players, and the way that they behave both on and off the pitch, sometimes beggars belief. We don't get this in rugby!
Last edited by MelanieGiles on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Paul, you make me laugh. Yourself or Hearts are in no position to gloat on the sidelines as Hearts is in a financial mess and have had at least 5 court threats over unpaid taxes in recent years.
Scottish football will be in a whole worse place if Rangers end up in the lower leagues. Those who wish for that may regret that in the longer term.
Thats a very good point regarding how quickly Hearts have been issued threats of winding up orders,yet the same didnt apply to rangers!! Oh and hector is very happy that our tax is up to date. Remember this all came about because rangers deducted tax from salaries and used it as working capital,rather than pay what was due. As for long term the moneyy that rangers would bring to the lower leagues would bolster the scottish game from the bottom up and they'd be back in the top flight in 3 years time,which would he an accceptable punishment imo.
Paul
Paul
Discharged today the 8th feb 2012. View is much brighter now.
Continuing to rebuild our credit worthiness.
I'm afraid I have very little sympathy for Rangers or any other football club that operates in this way. As far as I'm concerned there should be no special allowances for football clubs, they should be treated the same as any other business that doesn't pay its taxes.
