Gambling while in an IVA ?

[TheMatrix]

It's not complicated, you just have to be extremely disiplined to pull this off and wait for the right opportunity to come along. It helps to be good at maths too to make sure that whatever happens you've covered any loss and guaranteed yourself a profit.

It's a way of getting free money, just as long as you don't end up gambling, that's where the problem lies, it's very easy to get caught up in a mugs game and that is what they are banking on.

Stay away from this if you're in a IVA. Betfair T&C's talk about closing your account if they become aware that you are insolvent and you need an account with them in order to pull this off.

The other problem of cause is that there are only so many "introductory bonuses" you can claim, so the system would only work for so long.

[Helper]

Hello folks,

Wow, that was quick!
Thank you all so much for your thoughts.

**Foggy, Yep, I agree wholeheartedly, but in this case, you misunderstand. There is no 'fighting' the bookie. None at all.
so he (bookies as a whole) will neither win nor lose in the end.
Actually a tiny loss does exist, but it's the bookies', which is always nice, lol.

**ginger, thank you!

**Tina S, nope, it's nothing like, or to do with, Spread Betting.

**The Matrix, yes exactly, you've got it.

I didn't want to actually go into this in case ANYONE misunderstands and 'has a go at it'. But the idea is that to 'win' (or claim) the bookies introductory sign up offers, you have to have one 'qualifying' bet. So, if you bet a horse, soccer team, snooker star, F1 driver etc etc to win.. you MUST also bet that the same guy/horse/team... also loses!! As Matrix says, with another bookie or 'exchange'... where you lay the bet and are effectively the bookie yourself. Therefore any win is cancelled by an opposing loss.

If your win bet wins.. you win at the odds, get your win and stake back, no bonus.
If your win bet loses, you 'win' the opposite bet! But you can then also claim the bonus from the FIRST bookie.

It sounds far more complicated than it is.

The main thing is, that there is never, at no time, any risk to capital. (or stake).
None.
Ever.
Zero risk.

Indeed for this to work, the same horse can either win, or drop dead halfway through the race. It does not matter a jot.

Because it's not the winning of any bet that you're after.


I just wondered if it was actually illegal.

Frowned on perhaps! I can see that well enough... and actually... I agree! But there is only a risk if you get carried away and start 'gambling'.

This isn't a 'get rich quick', not at all.
But maybe it could be called a 'get a tiny bit richer than you were last week, safely'.

However, if any 'winnings' would definitely be 'confiscated' as earnings, then obviously it's not worth bothering with.
I nearly asked if that would be the same if you won the lottery.. But who cares!!

Thank you all for your thoughts again.

And to the moderators:
If you don't wish my explanation to go 'live'... by all means delete it.

Geoff.

Oh ps... To the chap who reckons spreadbetting firms 'win' anyway because of the spread.. Well, not quite so.

Try looking at it this way:

Firstly, yes spreadbetting can be dangerous if you're not trained and educated in their use.
But so is a sharp knife, or a car. Would you ask your two year old to peel some spuds, or your 7 year old to take you to work in the car?

Now, most folk would say that buying a few shares is quite 'ok' to do.
All our pensions are grown by pension fund companies who buy and sell shares on our behalf. That's how your little pot grows into a slightly larger pot. (and the fund manager whips about 70 grand off the top of your little pot when you retire).

Anyway...

When you buy a share, you have to pay stamp duty on top of the actual cost of the share, plus you will be sold those shares at the upper spread price too.. then if you sell that share you will pay tax on it as capital gains.. and maybe as income tax too.. and you will pay a tax on any interest that your share makes as well! AND you will pay charges to the fund manager who does this for you, plus yearly charges to 'maintain' your holdings.

Oh, and you can then only make money if your share price goes up!! True, you could be lucky and get a bit of a dividend as long as you hold the thing. But unless you have a BIG bunch of shares, any dividend wont be buying you a new Merc' I'm afraid.

Good eh.

If you spread bet...

You can make money even if the share price goes down! How valuable do you think THAT might have been in the current slump?
(answer: VERY).
Sure, you have to buy at the upper spread (just as when you buy a share...) but so what?
When you buy a sell (work that one out, lol) you pay at the lower end spread...
You are selling shares that you don't own, then buying them back if you were right, and the price went down... the differnce in the two levels is your profit.

If you buy anything from a business, would you expect to buy it for free?

The spread (which is only a tiny tiny cost) is the commission the broker has to charge to make any money!!

A packet of porridge would be cheaper if Asda didn't charge you for them putting it on their shelves, or trucking it to their store etc etc. Brokers charge ONE small 'commission' in the form of the spread.. and that's it!

Your profits are tax free.
I'll repeat that..

Any capital gains you make from spread betting are free of tax.

This is because it's seen by the taxman as a 'bet' which it is of course. Any betting tax (as in horse racing) is also taken care of by the spread.
No stamp duty either.

Just the spread. That's it.

Yep, it can go against you and potentially you could get skinned well and truly. Scarey as all Hell.

But, it's like driving a car...

Would you do it at 100 miles an hour, on a country lane, at night, with no driving lessons, and your head in a bucket?

Nope, neither would I.


You can do all sorts to massively avoid being skinned alive.

End of novel.

Now, can anyone PLEASE tell me how to start saying NO to my darling daughter? 'Cos I still haven't quite got the hang of it. Apparently...

Geoff.

[Helper]

Hmm, I thought it had got stuck so I clicked it again.

That'll teach me not to meddle eh?

G.

[kallis3]

I've deleted the duplicate Helper.

[Firefox]

Hi,

I'm afraid my advice to yo r friends would be, STOP and STOP NOW! Tina makes an important point, an adiction could be building alongside the delusion that somehow gambling can offer a way out of debt. I wish your friends well.

[Broke of London]

My head is spinning! I'll stick to my annual £2 on the grand national!!

[plasticdaft]

Gambling is a mugs game and if you can't afford to lose the money you shouldn't bother.

Far too many people end up ruined by various addictions so if you are a true friend tell them to not bother!

Bookies are not daft!

Paul

[Pandy]

I have never been in a betting shop, never wanted to, I dont even do the lottery, do not believe in gambling at all, but that is just me, but I know plenty of other potential IVA's who do

[kallis3]

The lottery I don't mind as it doesn't cost a lot but equally, if I can't afford it one week then I'm not bothered.

I'm also in a syndicate at work but that costs me £1 a week and we do get a payout in December (there's about 14 of us in it and we only use £10 a week) which includes any winnings and that funds my office Christmas lunch!!!!

[FormerlyST1100]

Helper (Geoff), your surname is not Harvey by any chance is it?

(The author of a book on "matched betting")

[Skippy]

I agree with PD, if you can't afford to lose then don't gamble as in the end the only ones who win are the bookies.

[kallis3]

According to his bio ST1100, that isn't his surname.

I do agree that if you can't afford it, then don't do it.

[dawng1]

Gambling is a fools game, i agree. Wish my husband would see that tho. He is a gambler on the horses. My dad was a gambler on the horses too and growing up i hated this. He was never at home, always at the bookies. Was great when he won a lot but as a child you dont see that, yes he had won this wad of money and bought us nice things and we were happy, but what about all the times he had lost a wad of money and we had no money and were miserable and my parents were argueing over it, because they were angry and frustrated that he had lost. I always say i dont want my kids feeling like that, but they probably do. Saying that my husband is not in the bettin shop all the time,but not that it makes any difference. It is an evil addiction, that gets hold of you,like any other addiction. I treat my husband like a child sometimes by saying no you cant have any money. He knows how i feel and deep down he feels the same, but it is an addiction and unless we have this addiction, we cant really understand. So what ever you do GEOFF, if your friends are not gamblers then PLEASE DONT MAKE THEM BE!

[plasticdaft]

Dawn you are totally spot on with this. What sort of friend introduces people with little spare cash into the world of gambling?

Sorry Geoff dont mean to judge you at all but its crazy to think that there is any way you could maintain an income from this method of gambling...UNLESS YOU DEVOTED ALL YOUR TIME TO IT!!! And even then its not totally risk free because at some point you will chance you luck and use any money earned on a sure thing and end up losing the lot.

Paul

[Helper]

Well, I see I've turned into some kind of devil here, apparently.

This is how witch hunts got going... sheep listening to fools who THINK they know what they are talking about.

It's obvious that most of you nay sayers haven't even READ my initial post!!

I reckon that if these 'Chinese Whispers' carry on for another page or two, I'll also be a Heroin dealer and a sex trafficker soon, no doubt.

To those who haven't read my first post:

I too am against gambling.

I'm 57 and have never even set foot in any bookies shop, because I fully agree that the bookies will always win in the end.


I am NOT trying to get my dear friends into gambling.

The point of the post was that my mate and his wife are SO frightened that they dare not even buy a lottery ticket!

Now, you might say that that's fair enough. And no, I'm not trying to get them to buy a lottery ticket either...

I just think that they are TOO frightened to live! And in my opinion, this has got the stage where it's unhealthy. They seem to think that the "IVA People" have them under surveilance!!

They are NOT the 'gambling type' at all. Neither am I.

As for the actual 'gambling' I talked about, I wish I'd never asked now. I'll repeat this one last time.. there is no actual gambling involved.

NO risk to the stake you put on to make this work
It does not matter whether the damn horse wins or loses.
But yes, there are bets involved and so you think it's a gamble. I thought so too, for years, because I would not listen to mates telling me otherwise. Because I hate the thought of gambling.

I was wrong.

There are ways of profiting from bookies that have NO risk to your money. NONE. It's NOT a 'sure thing' or an 'insider tip'
The bookies know all about it but know they can't lose more than a few quid, and yes they HOPE you'll stay on and GAMBLE after you've relieved then of the odd 20 quid... But just walk away!

Then do it to another bookie!

Anyway.. some folk think the world really IS flat and nothing you say will ever convince them otherwise.
Like politics, some will vote Labour no matter HOW MANY times they bankrupt the country, and then will call the nasty, greedy self serving Tories all the names under the sun when they try to clean up the mess.
(That'll set them off ...).

Some of you are in a tribe that will not open your eyes or ears.

I know folk who complain with the same vigour about me buying a few shares now and then, very small scale.. but yet they pay their 40 quid a month into their pension, with no idea at all what happens to their 40 quid...

This is the same thing.

And Matrix, it does not finish when all offers are taken up, because they try to tempt you in again after a while with the same offers. There is NO maths involved, you do NOT have to be clever, (or I couldn't do it!)so what's to stop you doing it again and again?

Not everyone will turn into a gambler.
Not evetryone who holds a knife will stick it into someone, or we'd never peel spuds.


If YOU ever buy a lottery ticket you are a gambler too.. just one who is a cheapskate.. and you think you are 'above' gambling.

Yet you call me for just trying to find out if 'gambling' is actually against the 'IVA' law..

Have you ever heard this old joke...

"Excuse me madam, would you go to bed with me for five pounds?"
Woman: "Of course not, what do you think I am!!"
Man: "Well, then will you go to bed with me for a million pounds, I have it here in this bag"
Woman: "Hmm.. well... oh ok then, come back to my place"
Man: "Well, tell you what, how about twenty pounds?"
Woman: "WHAT!! What do you think I am"???

"Madam, we have discerned what you are, now we are simply haggling over the price"


Please do not preach to me guys if you buy lottery tickets.
I do not gamble, but obviously, you do.


Pity, you seemed such a nice bunch too.

Geoff.