Everlengthening IVA - Part 3 The Victim Has Teeth

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chris_

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Post by chris_ » Sat May 12, 2007 10:10 am
I am now preparing for the fightback - done the reccy's and ready to repulse the enemy - All is not lost. We are ready for one last desperate offensive into the enemy's territory.

We have had a stable front here over the last 6 years but with the enemy holding the upper hand, and we have had to use all our resources to keep them at bay, but we just managed to do it. All breaches were quickly sealed, although it weakened our defences elsewhere. We survived.

Originally we were told that the war would be over by summer 06 (wish it could have been christmas for authenticity)but the enemy just will not be beaten back.
The war has dragged on and has now drained all reinforcements and national resources, - our defences have been breached more than several times over the last 12 months - we are now being overrun and are in danger of being finished off by the enemy.

It wasn't always like this you know. Our world was a peaceful place where our people were just like any others, but then came the storms.
Out of nowhere they came and our harvest was decimated and our nation was plunged into chaos.

We needed time to gather in the remaining harvest and plan for a new one to repair the damage from the storms. It is times like this when you find out who you can count on my friends, and who will just look after themselves.

When the storms were over and we assessed the damage, it was clear that we did not have enough reserves to meet our obligations, so we tried to re-negotiate our contracts - but to no avail.
Our contracts were called in, and out nation was on the brink of being taken over. Our people were in real danger of becoming second class citizens, under the authoritarian rule of a dictator.

Out of the gloom and despondency which hit our nation, emerged hope - bright and beautiful was the hero who appeared, promising he could hold the wolves at bay.
We explained to this hero that our harvest would recover quickly, and with the power that radiated out from him he forced the would be predators back. We made some deals and the hero stayed with us to make sure they were stuck to.

We knew it would be tough, but we kept our nation intact, and although all our excess harvest would go to others instead of making our people richer, we were happy. Our debts would be met and 5 years from then we would be free of the contracts, and able to reap the rewards of the fruits of our labours again.

Oh how naive we were.

Our hero gradually started to change. At first the change was slight, but as time went on we started to feel the change as well as notice it. The hero's image began to tarnish, and he took more and more of our harvest for himself, and after the new contracts were met we began to struggle to supply our people. We had been tricked, (beware of Geeks bearing gifts my friends as they are never what they seem).

War was only ever going to be the result of such betrayals, and it was soon joined. However the former hero - now the enemy - had the upper hand, his forces controlled most of the harvest grounds and we could only defend just enough of them to feed our people. The struggle had begun.

The enemy was clever - he knew that if he controlled the harvest, he could deal with our neighbours and former partners. He made sure the new contracts were met and then he bled the harvest grounds dry to fuel his greed.

We were surrounded on all sides and the fight was bloody, the little piece of the harvest grounds we still held were producing less and less each year, but we hung on.
Allies were found, but they did not have the power to defeat our enemy, only to aid us in small but vital ways which kept our front line intact.

We made it through the first five years, just. We were on our knees and worn out, but we had made it. With our former contracts settled the enemy would lose his control, and we would be able to take back our harvest grounds and free our people from the demands of war.

One again we showed how naive we were.

The enemy had not been paying the contracts in full, but had been taking so much of the harvest that the contracts were left fully unpaid, and our people were left to suffer for longer - the war would drag on. The enemy had promised the contracts would be fulfilled in time and had therefore ensured that we would receive no aid.

Another 12 months has passed and we have found new allies, and we have through a new and expanded intelligence network received vital information to aid the war effort.
We know now that the enemy has been breaching the rules of war, and we about to get our evidence to the enemy's allies, hopefully forcing him at last, off our harvest lands. Or at the very least forcing him to the peace table to negotiate a staged withdrawal.

It won't be easy however, we have to get through the enemy's lines to get the intelligence out, and then we have to convince the world of our plight and the truth about the enemy. We have to do this before we are totally overrun - it's a desperate situation, but at least there is some hope.

Our people will hope and pray our mission is successful.......
 
 

ordinary_world

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Post by ordinary_world » Sat May 12, 2007 10:57 am
Hi Chris,
You sound quite battle-weary but keep that front line strong! If your IP has breached the rules of war hopefully you will have legal grounds to counter his/her attack.

Out of interest, who is your IP or IVA firm and what "illegal" practices were they using to pilfer your harvest?

Keep fighting!

Best

OW

- 'I wont cry for yesterday 'cause there's an ordinary world somehow I have to find...'
OW

- 'I wont cry for yesterday 'cause there's an ordinary world somehow I have to find...'
 
 

chris_

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Post by chris_ » Sat May 12, 2007 11:04 am
Hi ordinary_world,

You can read all about it on my previous post - everlastingiva-part2
http://www.iva.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2714
Chris.
 
 

ordinary_world

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Post by ordinary_world » Sat May 12, 2007 11:37 am
thanks Chris, will have a read.




OW

- 'I wont cry for yesterday 'cause there's an ordinary world somehow I have to find...'
OW

- 'I wont cry for yesterday 'cause there's an ordinary world somehow I have to find...'
 
 

ordinary_world

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Post by ordinary_world » Sat May 12, 2007 11:54 am
Oh my god - those charges appear to be astronomically inflated! If they've signed to 50 hours max @ £45 - 90 per hour then surely you've grounds to reclaim those charges with interest?

I just find it hard to comprehend how Armstrong Watson could live with themselves (ethically)...having the temerity to financially exploit someone who they know is experiencing substantial financial difficulty - it stinks of predatory-like behaviour.

These ridiculous charges could be considered penalty charges that are not proportionate to the true cost of dealing with your case. Are you able to follow the same process for reclaiming bank charges? (see www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk)

I wish you luck with the financial ombudsman and hope they are able to tame the likes of Armstrong Watson!

Best

OW

- 'I wont cry for yesterday 'cause there's an ordinary world somehow I have to find...'
Last edited by ordinary_world on Sat May 12, 2007 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
OW

- 'I wont cry for yesterday 'cause there's an ordinary world somehow I have to find...'
 
 

DebtDummy

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Post by DebtDummy » Sat May 12, 2007 12:56 pm
Chris, I am sending you a dozen warrior helmets in various colours. You will fight the war of the greedy with renewed vigour and be victorious. Your silver sword of justice shall slay the beast. May the long arm of Armstrong become short and weak. May the vile blood spill broadly!

Power and respect to the indebted people of the land being feed upon by greedy IPs!May they rise in number and defeat the enemy.

I wish you success in your mission.

All I have left is my humour. :)

View my blog. http://www.debtdummybankruwoman.blogs.iva.co.uk.
Last edited by DebtDummy on Sat May 12, 2007 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All I have left is my humour. :)

View my blog http://www.debtdummybankruwoman.blogs.iva.co.uk.
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sat May 12, 2007 2:03 pm
As an ex-Territorial Army Officer, I am glad to see that you are using military determination in your strive for justice. Please keep us informed of progress as closely as you can. I am taking a specific interest in seeing how this matter is eventually resolved.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

chris_

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Post by chris_ » Sat May 12, 2007 6:50 pm
Thanks everyone,

I am still analysing the figures I have been given by my IP and will post more details later.

Chris.
 
 

gimmewine

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Post by gimmewine » Sun May 13, 2007 1:44 am
Chris, if I was in your shoes I would stop analysing and set the wheels in motion. Personally, as well as writing a letter of complaint to your IP clearly indicating you intend to pursue this matter with the Ombudsman as you consider the charges excessive. If the response is like it or lump it I would do just that, refer it to the Ombudman.

An IP will probably know the answer to this, but as the debtor, are you entitled to request a copy of your account showing payments received with dates and a log of correspondence. I am just thinking if Chris requested this from his creditors and their log showed very little activity it may strenghten his case with the Ombudsman
 
 

scaredkez

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Post by scaredkez » Sun May 13, 2007 1:52 am
i agree gimmewine.

my you are up late to justlike me lol
kerri

Please view my blog at: http://scaredkez.blogs.iva.co.uk/
Please view my blog at: http://scaredkez.blogs.iva.co.uk/
 
 

DebtDummy

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Post by DebtDummy » Sun May 13, 2007 2:05 am
eurovision was sooo good it kept us up! lol

All I have left is my humour. :)

View my blog http://www.debtdummybankruwoman.blogs.iva.co.uk.
All I have left is my humour. :)

View my blog http://www.debtdummybankruwoman.blogs.iva.co.uk.
 
 

chris_

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Post by chris_ » Sun May 13, 2007 9:59 am
Hi all,

I agree totally with your last comments, and have indeed 'set the wheels in motion' with regards the ombudsman. However, as you would expect the issue is not as straight forward as you might think.

There is no 'golden entry' in the figures that I can point to and as such I have to be able to point out the areas of concern I have over the 30 sheets of charges. For example there are entries where I have had a 20 min phone call and the entry in the charges has 1:50mins down for the phone call and writing the details down afterwards! - the ombudsman wouldn't know this from the figures.

BUT, my main reason for looking closely at the figures is to see exactly what my money has been spent on. The IP has constantly said that my charges went up in the early days due to dealing with HMRC and I took their word for this. However looking at the figures this is not the case, and the entries for creditor work are not that large in comparison to the hundreds of entries for 'admin' - it is these areas of concern which I need to put to the ombudsman.

Finally, without this forum I would not have been able to get anywhere with this,- and I do not believe I am the only person who has been treated this way and hopefully by putting my charges on the forum it would enable others to compare figures. - If my IP takes 20 mins and charges me £20 for writing a cheque to themselves, it would be interesting to see if other IP's charge similar amounts, or do they take 5 mins and charge £5. - After 6 years of this I want as much ammunition as possible to throw at both my IP and the ombudsman.

I might even photograph the 30 sheets and put them on this forum as you really do have to see them to appreciate the scale of this, and the charges are not a simple case of looking at a sheet and seeing what things have cost, due to the 'jumble' of the entries.

I do not enjoy spending hours looking at accountants sheets, but I fully intend to make sure that no one, and I mean NO ONE is under any illusions over my case, and when my IP tries to defend these figures (which they surely will do) I intend to have a ready response.

Also, if the ombudsman has only been able to get involved since January this year just how many other IVA's have been operated this way ?


Incidentally, does anyone know a way of finding out the IVA's that a particular IP is responsible for - I mean if Armstrong Watson have been operating my IVA incorrectly, it stands to reason that they will have operated others in the same way - now wouldn't that be a major piece of ammunition !.

Just a thought.

Chris
 
 

gimmewine

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Post by gimmewine » Sun May 13, 2007 10:58 am
I think you will have to resign yourself to the fact that you will be a "test" case. However, if you prove your IVA was operated unprofessionally or that the charges were "excessive" or in any other way you get a refund, you will find that further cases follow. The professional bodies will have an interest and may decide to look at this organisation in more detail and word of mouth will almost certainly ensure others come forward and take up their own case.

I disagree you have nothing to point to though. Your IP estimated no more than 50 hours for a three year IVA. As a professional IP they can be expected to get that estimate more or less right and really it should only be circumstances they could not have foreseen that bump up that estimate significantly. If this happened, as a professional they can be expected to contact you, the customer, without delay to discuss the revised timescales and explain the change in circumstances. I know for a fact if I estimated 20 hours on a job and then came back with an invoice for 200 hours, my professional body would question my integrity and would certainly have a good look at what I have done.

Ann
 
 

chris_

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Post by chris_ » Sun May 13, 2007 11:33 am
I couldn't have put it better myself.

For my own peace of mind I intend to do as much as I can myself in pointing out the issues to the ombudsman, you will understand I am sure that I have maybe no longer got as much trust in 'professionals' as I used to have. (Not all I hasten to add - just most!)

My IP's only defence as far as I can see for increasing costs, are the ones already highlighted in my posts - finalising HMRC claims and any letters to me when I have been late with payments or info. By looking at the supplied figures I will be able to show that this 'extra' work only covers a fraction of the increased charges, and that the rest is down to too much 'Admin'

Chris.
 
 

gimmewine

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Post by gimmewine » Sun May 13, 2007 12:24 pm
I agree, late payments are extra work caused by the customer and I would feel fairly justified in charging for that extra work.

However, finalising claims and dealing with the creditors are, as I see it, just a bog standard part of the job and I would expect the estimate in hours for this to be more or less accurate to be honest. If the claims took a lot longer to finalise, thus resulting in a lot higher charge by the IP I would expect the IP to demonstrate solid grounds for this ie unforeseen circumstances. I may be wrong, I am not an IP, but that is what I would expect.

Best of luck with the biting in the bum now you've found you've got teeth.
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