The point is, Paul, that the debtor should get what they signed up for. Yes, I can see future proposals being worded differently, possibly to allow the stance that DFD are taking. But, for now, they should be forced to stick to the proposal --- after all the debtor has to !
I am concerned ... we get many queries on the forum regarding the equity clause, even when imposed perfectly correctly, indicating either a general lack of understanding, or a lack of explanation by the IP ( I suspect the latter).
These assumed new clauses will cause even more heartache, I imagine.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Foggy
The point is, Paul, that the debtor should get what they signed up for. Yes, I can see future proposals being worded differently, possibly to allow the stance that DFD are taking. But, for now, they should be forced to stick to the proposal --- after all the debtor has to !
I am concerned ... we get many queries on the forum regarding the equity clause, even when imposed perfectly correctly, indicating either a general lack of understanding, or a lack of explanation by the IP ( I suspect the latter).
These assumed new clauses will cause even more heartache, I imagine.
Exactly what I've been posting about on a number of these threads foggy.
It seems that some IP's have been misleading 'clients' into believing that they will remortgage or extend for twelve months if unable to remortgage to meet the equity release clause, but wording the proposal with 're finance' and making no mention of the possibility of one of these scandalous loans at all, only to drop the bomb shell in the final year.
I'm sick of people saying "check your proposal wording"
If you've been told remortgage or twelve months extension by your IP and never had any mention of an 'eight year 18% secured loan' you assume 're finance' is referring to remortgage.
People are being swindled by people who they trusted and had belief in at extremely vulnerable times in their lives, simple as that.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea".
Hi Goosed. I am afraid we all say, and will continue to do so, "Check your proposal", for therein lies the agreed terms. What we are hoping for is wording in the proposal to protect the client's interest -- which, if needed, can form the basis of arguement or a complaint.
Unfortunately, if the wording is as clear as day that re-finance is required, rather than re-mortgage, then we have somewhat of a sticky wicket.
We, who are already upon the road, must check that wording NOW and argue any changes, not wait until it hits the fan. Those just about to embark: This is one of the most crucial clauses and it is IMPERATIVE that you understand it and are happy with what you are signing up for BEFORE signing on the dotted line!
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
Sadly i don't think this is going to go away, if one company can do this then there will be others to follow.
I totally agree with you foggy but it seems that what you signed for 5/6 years previously can be changed at the last minute and unless you can contest this legally you will have to fall in line. It is going to be interesting if the secured loan is coming from a firm affiliated with DFD as surely that is a conflict of interests.
I must admit it is a very worrying tme, we have seen many shifting sands with money being raised from various avenues, mainly PPI and how differently one firm treats another, the fact that some firms capture compensation, others do not and the list goes on and on, what next?
I've also noticed that none of the experts have commented on this, i know Melanie is away but there are others experts on this forum who could perhaps shed some light on this.
Om shanti, namesté, good luck to all who are embarking on the IVA journey, it isn't always an easy one but the outcome is the best.
IVA COMPLETED August 2012, received Completion certificate 18.4.13.
Understandably, I think the fact that this is another uncertain legal issue will put off some of the experts from taking a definative stance. Many have passed comment on previous similar threads - and they are unsurprisingly, not always consistent.
Even IPs who don't believe this secured loan approach is fair, may have their hand forced in the future if this practice becomes the norm - Creditors may then require this clause is written into future IVA proposals to get their vote.
Worrying times for us homeowners who have just emabrked on the IVA journey (or those contimpalating it).
My opinions are just that: Based on my experience and being a self-employed IVA customer.
If this actually became the norm then the result would be that an IP suggesting an IVA as the correct solution to someone with equity in their house could be incorrect.
And for future debtors if they have equity in a house maybe they should bite the bullet before deciding anything, sell the house, pay of some or all of the debt and then if a debt solution is still needed just go and rent for 5 years.
It's all very well IVAs being sold with words like 'your house is protected' but at what cost?
Last Payment - November 2011 - Completion Certificate received 2 weeks after last payment, Removed from Insolvency Register within 4 weeks after last payment.
If you sign something then it should be legal and binding, not subjective that it can be changed at a later date to suit someone else. IVA's are not something folks enter to lightly and to live through one is hard enough without any further problems arising when they are nearing the end.
I totally agree that transparency and honesty is the thing here if there is going to be a change so that funds can be obtained from a secured loan in lieu of equity then it should clearly state that and in not be written in jargon!
Om shanti, namesté, good luck to all who are embarking on the IVA journey, it isn't always an easy one but the outcome is the best.
IVA COMPLETED August 2012, received Completion certificate 18.4.13.
Luckily for me I'm with a very good and fair IP and company and the wording in my proposal is clear and straight forward.
I just feel very angry about the con jobs being carried out on the posters of the increasing number of threads like this one.
These people have been misled and duped by professionals of an industry that will undoubtedly become tarnished if the companies and individuals are not brought into line.
I think it might be a good idea for Martin Lewis and his TV show to be informed of the companies perpetrating these scams that are being sold as '5 year affordable debt solutions' but are nothing of the sort.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea".
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Goosed
Luckily for me I'm with a very good and fair IP and company and the wording in my proposal is clear and straight forward.
I just feel very angry about the con jobs being carried out on the posters of the increasing number of threads like this one.
These people have been misled and duped by professionals of an industry that will undoubtedly become tarnished if the companies and individuals are not brought into line.
I think it might be a good idea for Martin Lewis and his TV show to be informed of the companies perpetrating these scams that are being sold as '5 year affordable debt solutions' but are nothing of the sort.
Totally agree with you. Trouble is, from what I have read here, it seems most of us have the 'iva protocol' wording regarding equity release, and as you say, it seems like some companies are taking liberties.
Don't bank on any help from Martin Lewis though - just read the anti-IVA bias in his out of date (2008) IVA guide.
My opinions are just that: Based on my experience and being a self-employed IVA customer.
Just been reading this thread and it is very worrying.
We have a 12 month extension in place at Nrams request when we embarked on our iva, and we hope that once we have done our 72 months, we will be off.
We are in negative equity at the moment by a fair few £k so just hoping that should we be on the up by the end of our IVA's and if we have equity, that the rules within our protocol remain.
It is a shame that the company that have tried to help a person to deal with their debts appear to then want to put them straight back in it again.
Started IVA 27th Feb 2012 - Due to complete 27th Jan 2018 !!
Full & Final submitted and accepted 30th March 2015, paid 10th April 2015 - 3 yrs 1 month into IVA
Completion Certificate received- 30th April 2015!!
I'm sure by the time you complete the main thread of this topic, along with current uncertainty of same will have been ironed out in some way and probably won't be an issue ; personally I even think it possibly be regulated against, but that's just my view
I also think that when this issue gets out into the open, it could discourage people from entering into an IVA
Good luck and even when the going may seem rough , just think about the end result
Best wishes
Last payment made April 2012
Certificate received 1st Nov 2012
We are pleased that our first year has gone sp quick and are adapting to the iva fairly well, which we are most surprised about.
I think you are correct that issues such as this are being discussed for all to see, especially if their are others who maybe look in on the forum to read other people's experiences, that are going through the same issues thinking that the are the norm.
I am with Sue at Mel's team and she is great- as they all are- and I have already been asked about ppi etc as part of my review to get it out the way early, but have had no pressure for saying that we have none to claim, which is nice.
I think that sometimes the creditors have to agree to changes with policies that occur ie, reduction in payment being needed and that they are writing some debt off in some cases, and that I can see why companies are offering loans to help pay an iva back, but I can't help but think its a slippery slope!
You are probably right that all this will most likely be sorted by the time we get to that point, till then, pay our dues and look to the end!!
Started IVA 27th Feb 2012 - Due to complete 27th Jan 2018 !!
Full & Final submitted and accepted 30th March 2015, paid 10th April 2015 - 3 yrs 1 month into IVA
Completion Certificate received- 30th April 2015!!
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MrsR
Thank you for your kind words 12 months to go.
We are pleased that our first year has gone sp quick and are adapting to the iva fairly well, which we are most surprised about.
I think you are correct that issues such as this are being discussed for all to see, especially if their are others who maybe look in on the forum to read other people's experiences, that are going through the same issues thinking that the are the norm.
I am with Sue at Mel's team and she is great- as they all are- and I have already been asked about ppi etc as part of my review to get it out the way early, but have had no pressure for saying that we have none to claim, which is nice.
I think that sometimes the creditors have to agree to changes with policies that occur ie, reduction in payment being needed and that they are writing some debt off in some cases, and that I can see why companies are offering loans to help pay an iva back, but I can't help but think its a slippery slope!
You are probably right that all this will most likely be sorted by the time we get to that point, till then, pay our dues and look to the end!!
