DFD trying very hard to convince me that secured loan is more effective than remortgage.

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Pauld3098

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Post by Pauld3098 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:53 pm
Half way through last year of iva. Been contacted by someone representing DFD trying to release equity on home by the way of a long term personal secured loan.
Tried very hard to convince me this was more cost effective than re morgageing. Don't think with iva and outstanding debt we would qualify for a morgage. Was expecting to be told that we would have 12 more months in iva.
can ip forcce me to take a personsal loan out
 
 

Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:56 pm
Hi

Have you been sent some documentation to sign to change the t&c's of your current IVA ?

Regards
Andam Davies
 
 

Michael Peoples

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Post by Michael Peoples » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:09 pm
It is possible that your proposal mentions equity release so you need to confirm what your commitments are to the IVA. A secured loan may be better than a remortgage but an extension may be an option depending on what your proposal says and what modifications were proposed.
Michael Peoples | McCambridge Duffy Insolvency Practitioners
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If you would like to talk to me about proposing an IVA or have any questions at all please visit www.mccambridgeduffy.com
 
 

Pauld3098

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Post by Pauld3098 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:34 pm
No I have not been sent any changes to sign regarding t's & C's.
Received a letter from DFD informing me that someone from a company called Select Partnership would be in touch regarding releasing equity from the property and would I give them any information required. I presumed that this information would be a mortgage statement, property valuation etc.
When the Select Partnership rang me they did not ask me for any information they just talked about obtaining a personal loan to settle the IVA over a long period and higher APR.
They explained that as I was paying £250 per month to DFD towards my IVA that they work to a 50% rule and any loan obtained would not cost more than £125 a month.
Would not talk to me about overall cost of the loan only said that they would be in touch in a few days with a proposal.
Mentioned bankruptcy a couple of times during the conversation this felt more like a veiled threat if I did not take offer of loan up.
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Andy Davie

Hi

Have you been sent some documentation to sign to change the t&c's of your current IVA ?

Regards
 
 

Judith Anderton

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Post by Judith Anderton » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:50 pm
Dear Pauld3098,
Please contact me via the email address in my profile so I can take a look into your case and address your concerns.
Speak soon.
Thanks,
Judith
Debt Free Direct
Forum Customer Support
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:52 am
I still fail to see how a secured loan can ever be better for someone in an IVA than an extended 12 month period - but am sure that one day someone will tell me that in their case it was. Until then ...
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

plasticdaft

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Post by plasticdaft » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:24 am
Disgraceful behaviour especially threatening bankruptcy in order to SELL these costly long term loans!

Yes I said sell because thats exactly what they are trying to do.

Paul
Discharged today the 8th feb 2012. View is much brighter now.
Continuing to rebuild our credit worthiness.
 
 

UpToMyNeckInIt

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Post by UpToMyNeckInIt » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:00 pm
Hi Pauld3098,

DFD seem to be the only IVA provider doing this on any sort of widespread scale.

What does your IVA equity release provision say?

Do you have any special terms imposed by your creditors?: HMRC and NRAM sometimes like to throw a spanner into the works by way of 'special' conditions for example.

If you have the older draconian clause requiring you to sell your home/release equity, to meet minimum dividend requirements: If you cannot release equity (typically via a remortgage, which you will not probably get), then yes, a secured loan is a more preferable option to selling your house I'm guessing.

If however, you have a post-2008 protocol compliant IVA, you are correct in assuming that equity release requires you to attempt 'remortgage' (with the IVA being extended for an extra 12 Months if this is unsuccessful - usually the case).

My argument to DFD would be that a 'remortgage' and 'secured loan' as 2 separate types of product. If your equity release provision only requires attempted 'remortgage', then tell DFD where to stick the offer of a secured loan.

DO NOT sign up to DFD's offer of revised terms, as that entails adopting the 2014 protocol which potentially does permit equity release by secured loan.

The only other time a secured loan will be your best cheapest option is if you have been unfortunate enough to be accepted for some sort of sub-prime remortgage (ie: remortgage your whole property debt at some poor APR). In which case, the alternative is keeping your prime APR-rate mortgage, and using a relatively small, albeit sub-prime secured loan to release the equity that the remortgage would have.

I recall that several other forum members have also faced this pressure from DFD, and had some success in fending this approach off.

Good Luck.
My opinions are just that: Based on my experience and being a self-employed IVA customer.
 
 

mole

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Post by mole » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:10 pm
Good post UpToMyNeckInIt, I would cut and paste your last response as I am sure it will be an appropriate post many times in the next few days, weeks, months..
 
 

UpToMyNeckInIt

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Post by UpToMyNeckInIt » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:07 pm
...I just hope that it helps arm affected IVA customers with a little useful information.

Now excuse the long post, but here is the flip-side of the argument to illustrate my point.

I am not blindly defending secured loans (I have made my distaste of the sky-high interest rates and fees known!). But there are people in IVA's, who have signed up to releasing equity with no intention of doing so, ie: gambling on the assumption (a reasonable one in many cases) that they will just get a 12-Month extension instead.

There will of course be more equity release vehicles products available as the housing market frees up, with the advent of the 2014 protocol and as banks continue to relax mortgage criteria. Those of us that may fall foul of the equity release provision should keep a watchful eye on this rapidly evolving situation.

Remember though that strict affordability criteria set out in the IVA apply: The loan repayment can only be at 50% of the IVA payment so the higher the APR the lower the amount that can be borrowed.

Example:

OK, the variables here are huge, but using some of the figures banded around on this and other forums, fact is, IT IS cheaper to take out a high APR secured loan over a remortgage in some cases.

Assume an IVA customer and homeowner currently repaying £500pcm into their IVA. Their house is worth £242,400 (a bit less than the UK average), but mortgaged at £145,000 at 4.5% apr over 20 Years. Monthly mortgage repayment around £900-£930pcm.

At equity release time, they have to attempt to raise £10K through equity release. (Assuming they meet all affordability criteria).

Choices:

1). Remortgage offered for £155K at 7.55%apr for 25 Years = £1126pcm.

Total repayable: £337,600. Total interest paid £182,600 (as opposed to the £78,000 to £95,000 interest on the 'normal' mortgage). So the remortgage leaves the customer £87,500 worse off at best assuming it goes to term.

2). Secured loan for £10K at 18%apr for 10 Years = £172pcm.

Total repayable: £20,600. Total interest paid £10,600.

Option 2 leaves the customer nearly £77k better off.

...OK, my maths may not be dead-on, but you get the idea.

In summary, if I were a customer faced with the prospect of a sub-prime mortgage offer (but ONLY if I have a remortgage offer), I know what I'd go for: Give me the loan, as extortionate as it is, any day.

Hopefully of course, when my time comes, I will get a couple of mortgage application rejection letters, and a 12-Month IVA extension instead.
My opinions are just that: Based on my experience and being a self-employed IVA customer.
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:48 am
I've not had an IVA case yet who have been offered any form of re-mortgage in the final year, since the start of the credit crunch in 2007 - therefore the comparable to secured loan costs really is irrelevant.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

Shining

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Post by Shining » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:33 am
My simplistic view is when I entered and IVA that when it concluded I would be debt free, taking a loan wouldn't have made me feel like the IVA would have been beneficial to me.
IVA final payment left the bank on the 26th January 2013...looking forward to a debt free future.
 
 

Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:52 am
Hi

My personal view on the secured loan route is that it is very good result for the IVA provider, both commission and the probable 15% retained of any lump sum will be a significant amount.
It will help boost the bottom line, very important if you are a listed company such as DFD

Seems to me a way of maximising profits for the IVA company concerned, very similar to the PPI fiasco

I have no problem with the secured loan element IF this was clearly explained from the outset and included in the Chairmans report following IVA creditors meeting, I do have a problem with it being enforced retrospectively, same as I have a problem with PPI claims holding up completion of current IVAs

Regards
Andam Davies
 
 

Michael Peoples

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Post by Michael Peoples » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:21 am
There is certainly a place for the secured loan but I agree it should not be forced if the extension option is there and the client wishes to choose this route. It must also be borne in mind that few of these loans will last longer than a couple of years and have little or no exit fees as the clients will remortgage to take them out as soon as their credit files allow.

It must also be remembered that if you go and get two rejection letters from lenders your credit file will show this thereby further damaging your file. I am not sure if this is made clear and clients are thinking their IVAs are nearly over yet they making applications for remortgages that they will not get.

I feel it is best to review all the cases and give the clients their options without resorting to forced secured loans or further damaged credit files.
Michael Peoples | McCambridge Duffy Insolvency Practitioners
http://www.mccambridgeduffy.com
If you would like to talk to me about proposing an IVA or have any questions at all please visit www.mccambridgeduffy.com
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