Debtmatters, Grant Thornton and Payplan

[craigbeas]

I have a IVA with debtmatters and wrote to them to put in for a settlement offer to our creditors nearly a month ago due and found last week re the transfer, we have now been told after phoning GT that i need to re send and then it would take 6 weeks which is totally unacceptable. My wife lost her job and had a miscarriage and therefore we wanted to make the offer based on selling our house as this was excluded from original IVA. At this stage i am not in aposition on even knowing can we put our house up for sale as if the creditors turn down the offer are they entitled to any of the equity. Somebody help because debtmatters or GT are not in any form.

[Adam Davies]

Hi
If your house was excluded then you are free to sell it,however the proceeds may be deemed as a windfall.
You need to write to GT with your settlement offer,they WILL deal with it.I know that you have been treated poorly but the important thing is to get this offer in front of your creditors
Your creditors will almost certanly accept a full and final given your circmstances so bite the bullet and get that letter sent asap.

[greenback]

Thanks Cybus and MelanieGiles for you comments, I must say I find this site very helpful and take on board all the advise given.

Now firstly can I clarify my IVA has been transferred to Payplan, Also although I have heard from Payplan regarding the proposel and change of supervisor order I have heard nothing suprise suprise from Debtmatters.

There is an arguement for and against signing to changes of my current IVA order resulting in a higher fee charge to the payments pot from currently 15 percent to 25 percent.

The arguement for change relates mostly to the so called advantages of having a 'variable'IVA but I have read my current agreement with DM and find the possibility of reducing my current payments by up to 15 percent already exists and apart from the 500 pounds windfall which seems to be standard in most plans I dont really have an issue with the present agreement.

My main concerns lie around the fact that once I agree to accept these changes this could lead to my creditors requesting further restrictions and increased monthly costs to me in the future to put the new proposel through.

Certainly with the current long term 'credit crunch' climate out there I feel the banks will be going out of there way to get as much out of us as possible, so if I dont change my present IVA model they will not have the opportunity unless I default in some way.

I count myself luckly that I started this IVA a few years ago before the crap hit the fan! I feel sorry for numerous people I hear at work who are borrowing hand over fist to pay there outgoings every month and know if I tried to get the same deal with my IVA today I would not stand a chance of getting the same deal.

So I am currently against, It is worrying to hear how some people are having there payment terms changed and the time it takes to pay off their debts extended.

When I spoke to Payplan they were all very nice and polite at first but when I suggested I may not sign their new IVA terms they became quite abrupt and even when I suggested it was in theirs and the creditors interests to insure I can keep paying my current level of payments without default - I even told them if the worst came to the worst I would consider BR as I have nil equity, I live in a bedsit and have no savings and they would get nothing from me if they we unreasonable they became agressive and warned me if I go BR I could still end up having most of a wage taken for the next 3 years - interestingly the same amount of time it will take before my IVA is payed off.

I fear the present credit climate will only get worse and people will find it harder to get out of debt. Sometimes I think is it not enough thats the creditors are foing to get 3 quarters of their money back and that half of the money I owe was interest anyway and that I will find it impossible to ever buy a house.

The main positive for me is that I am learning to live without credit so I am sure when I do complete my IVA unlike some I have no intention of getting credit cards or loans again.

Alot of the ways these firms get there own way is by using scare tactics

[craigbeas]

Thanks Andy
It is the windfall bit that worries me. I am really fed up with having no support from debtmatters over past few months and they have not responded to letters and now from speaking to GT i need to re send the letter and it will take another 6 weeks. Is there nothing i can do myself in respect of getting in touch with creditors etc?
Thanks again

[MelanieGiles]

Hi Greenback

You make some very valid and reasoned points, and the thing to bear in mind is that it is still your IVA, and that it can only be amended with your permission. There is probably provision within the agreement for the supervisor to request an increase in fees in any case, if that is what they need to do.

To craigbeas - I am afraid that you are rather caught up in the effect of these transfers, and that you do need to be a little patient with Grant Rhornton who have a lot on their plate at the moment. They will get round to you I am sure as soon as they can.

[joh71262]

I had my letter from DM last week advising me of the change to GT, but as of yet, have still to receive their letter advising me of any changes etc. I had hoped it would be a smoothe transition and that GT would start out, at least, on the right foot but so far, all's quiet. I'm not too sure if this is a good or a bad thing !

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

Hi all,

Just to say we have been watching this thread with some interest as there does seem to be some confusion to what excactly is going on here.

Also, we ourselves have now taken a couple of enquires this week on the same subject and may be asking for answers to our clients questions with regards to letters they have received etc.

Is there any chance someone from Payplan or Grant Thornton could actually post on here themselves and answer questions or clarify the position?

[greenback]

Yes we all want answers thats for for sure, It does not help that the DM website is still active as well! surely if they plan to dismantle this company and have already sold the IVA cases they are running they should take the website down or at the very least clearly state what they are doing and offer advice and support for current IVA holders.

I intend to go over all my agreement in depth this weekend and also the new proposel from Payplan recently sent to me. I do not intend to agree to any change of circumstances relating to changes in my IVA.

Once I have read through my documents again I will recontact both parties and keep you informed, if I am not happy I will access the options open to me.

One of the things payplan did state was that when the review comes around the call you to note down your outgoings as well as request this by post, so I will have to make sure I sit down and write everything I pay for in advance as when you are giving details over the phone you tend to miss things, maybe this is why the do things this way.


I wonder as my review date is currently set for 28th June whether my review will be delayed due to the change over? Also currently DM are still taking my payments via standing order and I do not know whether this will be cancelled and reset up with the new IP - I do not want any delay in my payments resulting in my payment terms being extended thats for sure.


The whole situation needs clarification otherwise DM could be reported for neglect of their existing customers I'm sure.

[joh71262]

Greenback - according to my Grant Thornton letter (that must have arrived after lunch !!), the payments will be transferred without you having to take any action at all.

I will re read more of the posts regarding the extra £500 + VAT they want to transfer the case. As far as I am concerned, that is their problem not mine - I didn't ask DM to sell their book therefore I see it as their responsibility.

[joh71262]

PS The letter is dated 11th March and today is 19th - I hope that's not a sign of things to come !

[greenback]

Well I have no letter yet and as for the transfer fee I know in my agreement it does say the supervisor can increase there fees in needed but... as you say we have not requested DM to sell are IVA's to other companies and if like me you have not defaulted on your IVA they can not force you to accept a varible IVA with changes.

I presume if you like me do not sign to allow these changes to be made they can not charge extra fees for another meeting with the creditors as they can not go ahead with the meeting and changes without your consent and I think DM would be liable for any charges made to the account resulting from them selling there cases to another company. I dont know how this would be accepted by the creditors as a legitimate charge which they can take out of the final payment pot.

I would think DM or the new IP will have to pay this out of their own pockets.

[goulda]

I have received my letter from Grant Thornton and as Mel had indicated I can see no problems with the modifications requested. Some of these modications are listed in the Chairmans report from the start of the IVA.

I am happy to sign the letter and return to them.

What do you others think?

[greenback]

Depends if you have defaulted or not on your IVA - I treat this the same way as any agreement I make I as the following:

Am I being offered anything new?

Are the terms favourable to me?

What can justify the new IP increasing their fees from my current 15 percent to 25 percent?

What am I getting out of this?

It seems to me some members are biased dare a say to these companies and although I respect their point of view at the end of the day it all boils down to looking after your own interests just as DM and the new IP's are trying to do.

For me there is nothing in these new terms accept an increase in the new IP's fees and another chance for my creditors to stick extra restrictions and ask for more money to be taken per month from me if I sign so...

I am not signing anything - not least until I have spoken and had a clearer picture from both DM and my new IP as to how these new terms on my IVA can benefit me.

If by saying it gives the new IP more flexiblity to reduce my payments should I come into difficulties in the future - well I already have that clause in my IVA which can reduce my monthly payments up to 15 percent - so thats what about 40 pounds maximum they could reduce my payments at most and whats that a weeks fuel bill these days isnt it .. not much really.

I will only sign if I am get a better deal

[joh71262]

I've signed it. As Mel said, the CREDITORS also have to agree to the £500 extra fee and it comes out of their pot. I wouldn't see many agreeing to it if you are already paying up with no problems.

If, as others have said, you have had payment problems in the past, then this would probably be in yours AND their best interest as there is the variation in payment clause (which I have to say I never noticed in all the blurb from DM). With the current state of the economy, this may be a good thing.

I was looking at changing my job last year and salaries are going down, despite rampant inflation (2.4% is a load of tosh). That clause may well come in handy at some point.

I don't believe that we will be required to pay any more money. There are already supervisors fees laid out in the original documents and as at my last review, none had been requrested. My annual review is due next month so I would be curious to see whether GT actually request the information by then or, as they need to make the request for the variation to the creditors within 28 days and then get them agreed, whether they wait.

Either way, I have sent them an email telling them that I expect a better service than DM and highlighted a couple of issues that I had with them.

Be interesting to see what people are saying 12 months down the line !

[youldena]

I received my letter from GT a few days ago listing the proposed changes to the agreement. I am really nervous about signing anything, although I know really I do not have much option.

Debtmatters did not give me the best advice 2 years ago when I took out my IVA but at the time I was in such a distressed state I would have signed anything to stop the phone calls and letters from creditors!! I know an IVA was the best(and probably the only) way forward but the fees I have agreed to are really over the top and I feel DM took advantage of my position. I am paying more than 1/3rd of my payments in fees.

So the last thing I want to do is pay more over to another company - does anyone know who will pay the £500+VAT fee for the transfer of the case and the calling of the variation meeting(Item 7 on the list of modifications)

Makes me laugh the statement at the bottom of the list "I have read and understood the proposed changes........." No chance - all legal jargon - how on earth is the regular punter meant to understand it all