Co-op debit card

[shrews]

Hi went into Matalan today tried paying by my co-op visa debit card,it got decline.Definitely money in the account because i went to the cash point to get the money to pay them.Talk about feeling embrassed.Can it be a common thing with this type of card? Emma

[edward_121]

i've got that card and the only place I had it declined was the M&S website? The fact that the cash point let you take the money out shows you had the money. I always use the cash point to check my balance as it is always more up to date than the Co-op's web site. Perhaps a glitch on their part or you put the wrong pin in ? Just an idea!

[Foggy]

Hi Emma. This is a problem with the co-op card. They used to be electron cards and these aren't accepted everywhere. When co-op uprated them to Visa Debit cards, they carried on using the electron prefix number --- so if the retailer hasn't updated their database recently ( and, apparently some don't ever!) their system will still read it as electron.

[Ivaniva]

I had my COOP Smilemore Debit card declined this week when paying my car insurance. There was enough money in the account but it was still declined. I had to draw the cash out to pay so it was okay in the end.
I phone Smile and they said it was a routine check especially because I was paying for insurance. It's still a bit worrying for further transactions though.

[shrews]

I know never had problems paying anywhere else with it ,she tried it twice in the store so defo right pin number.Then i went to a Morrison petrol station and used it and it was fine did have the cash just incase lol.It must be what Foggy said.

[luluj]

we're with SMILE and not had any issues at all - thoroughly recommend them !

[Foggy]

Pinched from another site -- this was dated the end of 2009 !!!:

For clarity.

This is a Visa Europe driven initiative and not the banks, be that the Co-operative Bank or any other.

Visa are "re-branding" the electron card as 'Visa Debit' , the only difference is that there are now 2 versions of a Visa Debit card. One with a Cheque Guarantee symbol on the back and one without (the old electron).

Visa are doing this to attempt to get rid of the stigma attached to the Electron brand - nobody likes it. Although in reality the only difference is that it isn't embossed and so can't be used in the old carbon swipe machines (who uses those now anyway?).

Anybody who has started to issue the new style debit cards (all/most UK banks who have existing electron customers whose cards are coming up to expiry), will have registered their card range with Visa as a 'Debit' not electron.

However, some companies may still 'see' these as Electron Cards until they update their software / get an updated version of the Visa Directory. Some payment software uses local copies, or a stored copy of the card number ranges - so it will always be behind.


In the meantime, treat it as an Electron card (even though it says debit). Or if a company won't accept it, speak to their management and get them to update their Point of Sale software / speak to their merchant services provider.

Eventually the initial issues will be ironed out and you'll be able to use your shiny new debit card in a lot more retailers than you could do your electron.

But Electron is definately no more........

[Adders]

i can cast a bit of light on this one, as it has happened to me a few times with another bank card. In short it is nothing to do with your account. Some banks set up floor limits on there bank cards before they have to get a full authorisation code down the telephone line some have this set as zero meaning every time you use your card it has to connect with the bank for a full authorisation. The electronic machines in shops are set to time out after so long if it can not connect with the clearing bank. This may just be down to a busy period in the day an engaged phone line or anything. This for cards set with a zero floor limit will cause the machine to show it as Declined. If you are sure money is avail;able just ask them to try it again and 99% of the time it will connect on the second try and authorise.

[Foggy]

Another take, pinched from yet another site:

I am a long standing Co-Operative customer and had a long conversation with a higher-up about this issue a while back. Previously, there were the two Visa card types - Visa Debit (previously Visa Delta) and Visa Electron. Visa Debit does not require a merchant check if the account holder has funds available for certain amounts, whereas Electron always requires that the account balance is checked to ensure there are funds available to cover the proposed transaction, which is why some retailers don't accept it (they aren't able to do an immediate check on available funds).

Naturally with most matters banking that annoy and confuse end users, most of the problems stem from contract issues between the merchants and the card issuers (i.e. transaction fees, fraud liability and so forth). The general rule is that Visa Debit is more likely to be accepted than Visa Electron. It is easy to spot an Electron card - they don't carry embossed details like most cards.

Of course, this is much to simple a system to have in place so Visa introduced a third option, a card that requires fully cleared funds like Electron but called Visa Debit, just like the original Visa Debit card. This card can have traditional embossed details, making it indistinguishable from a regular Visa Debit card. Because the merchant contract terms are similar if not the same for this card as Electron (Visa want to replace all Electron cards with this one, but some banks still issue traditional Electron cards), it will act in the same manner as an old Electron card when used to purchase. Except when it doesn't - as it is a Visa Debit card, some retailers will accept it as such even when they do not accept Electron. One of the most notable of these is Tesco when shopping online.

So, to summarise, we now have 3 types of card - original Visa Debit, Visa Electron and Visa Debit "lite" which is supposed to replace Electron and will act like a real Visa Debit card or a Visa Electron card depending on how the retailer interprets it.

In Co-Operative's specific case, as you mention, you have your original PAN (Primary Account Number). This is because Co-Operative (some argue in breach of regulations) have updated a portion of PANs beginning 4508 75 from being Electrons to Visa Debit, although the Visa clearing system will still recognise and process them as Electrons. I would expect that your card is one of these.

TL;DR: Co-Operative decided to make a rebrand a load of Visa Electron cards as Visa Debit cards as per Visa's new marketing push, but the clearing system still recognises the card number as being an Electron. Some retailers will process them as Visa Debit, however.

[shrews]

Thanks Foogy that made good reading you are right my card starts 450875.

[mattyboy]

To add to what foggy says visa merchant services are now in the process of hanging the authorisation system to stop this problem. It is just poor system set up on behalf of the merchant bank and business if they can't authorise all VISA cards electronically. The Electron brand is being phased out, the systems aren't quite ready yet though. The same thing happened with the phase out of maestro after the introduction of MasterCard debit.

[unhappygirl]

Dont worry,my coop card was declined in tesco petrol station today, I phoned them up and apparently all their machines we not authorising payments and everyones card was getting declined. I waited 30 mins on hold for them to tell me that!! apparently it is all sorted now. it doesnt help the embarracement though does it! x

[shrews]

Ouch sorry to hear it happened to you too unhappy girl.I am happier to know it wasn't just me.

[kallis3]

Didn't HSBC have problems last week when all of their cash machines went down?

Computers are great until they crash!!!!!

[Skippy]

Natwest had a problem at the weekend as well meaning some people could withdraw money.