CCCS

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catullus

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Post by catullus » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:59 pm
It's worth mentioning that statistically less than 20% of all DMP reach their conclusion.

A number of DMP's have in their business conditions that if you do succesfully conclude your DMP they will refund your first payment. The reason that they do this, of course, is that they know that statistically you're unlikely to complete.

I'm not criticizing DM companies for doing this. Actually I think it's a good incentive.

The reason why DMP's hardly ever complete lies in their informality. The moment that unexpected expenses have to be incurred and you can't afford the monthly payment, it's all too easy to miss a payment and generally you're back where you started.Other common reasons for failure are failing to put all the debts in the DMP, or borrowing more whilst in a DMP, and then that extra debt getting out of hand leading you to default.

There is a place for DMP's in the scheme of things.If you don't qualify for an IVA or have had a proposal rejected you might have very little choice unless you opt for bankruptcy.

What a DMP will do, is buy you some time, which should be used to get your house in order whilst you look for a more permanent debt solution.
 
 

sonyse2t5

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Post by sonyse2t5 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:02 pm
Only in Scotland do we get a Regulated DMP.So if people are in debt you better off in Scotland. When I contacted the National Debt line in Birmingham,they asked if I was calling from Scotland, England or wales? In the UK debtors get a bad deal unless you are on a IVA.

CCC would be history if we had the scotish concept....
Last edited by sonyse2t5 on Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

Skippy

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Post by Skippy » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:16 pm
Lets be honest, you get a better deal for everything if you live in Scotland or Wales - prescriptions etc.

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is the present - a gift to make the most of.

View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/
 
 

OPTIMIST12

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Post by OPTIMIST12 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:32 pm
20% success under the current DMP system certainly does not seem like much of an endorsement but as Catallus says - presumably many of the non-completions are actually people who have moved onto alternative solutions instead.

Surely if personal insolvencies continue to increase as they have been - and creditors become tougher in their acceptance criteria for IVAs - then someone will have to come up with a viable alternative for those who cant get IVAs and dont want to go bankrupt. A regulated DMP might be an answer. It would be interesting to have a crystal ball and to see what things are like say 5 years from now.

I agree about the Scots!!! Their 3 year Trust Deed Scheme sounds very good although I think Melanie has said that they may be reviewing this in the near future.
47 months completed - 13 months to go.
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:56 pm
The regulated DMP is already on its way, Optimist, it is called a SIVA. In time, I predict that SIVA's will knock a big hole in the ungregulated DMP marketplace.

And don't be misled into believing that a Scottish Trust Deed is equivalent to a DMP. They are not! And failure to get a Trust Deed accepted leads to automatic bankruptcy, leaving you with no alternative.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

OPTIMIST12

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Post by OPTIMIST12 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:03 pm
Thank you Melanie.

Just out of interest - are there any differences at all between insolvency laws in England and Wales? I wondered if - now that Wales has its own assembly - whether we might one day see a Welsh IVA / Trust Deed equivalent. I am sure it would be excellent!!!!
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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:07 pm
Well being Welsh I ought to be able to answer that one!

No difference at all with regard to the law in England and Wales. Although we have our own Welsh Assembly, I am glad to say that they rarely dabble in insolvency law.

I cannot see a Welsh Trust Deed in the near future - indeed I predict that we will not see Scottish ones in five years time. Northern Ireland, where I also practice, has laws which are very similar to England and Wales, although there is a different Insolvency Act and Rules, and when we make changes over here, they generally follow on over there after about 2 years.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

Myvesta-Steve

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Post by Myvesta-Steve » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:15 am
While we contemplating our navel or CCCS and others I can only offer the following two recent articles for you considration. One that asks some timely questions and the other one that suggests that creditors should sit with a CCCS advisor to see what it is like on the front line.

http://myvesta.org.uk/articles/articles ... Page1.html

http://myvesta.org.uk/articles/articles ... Page1.html


By the way, if anyone wants to write an article for our site, we'd be happy to consider it for publication.

[:)]



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Steve Rhode
President of Myvesta Foundation
Member Agencies
Myvesta US | Myvesta UK
Myvesta EU | Myvesta NL

Myvesta UK IVA Help: http://myvesta.org.uk/programmes/myvesta_iva.html
Blog: http://creditdebtlife.com
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Myvesta-Steve

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Post by Myvesta-Steve » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:28 am
Forgot to mention this interesting story about how creditors will accept dividends as low as 10p on the pound in Scotland.

http://business.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1390012007

Steve

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Steve Rhode
President of Myvesta Foundation
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Myvesta US | Myvesta UK
Myvesta EU | Myvesta NL

Myvesta UK: http://myvesta.org.uk
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Steve Rhode
President of Myvesta Foundation
Member Agencies
Myvesta US | Myvesta UK
Myvesta EU | Myvesta NL

Myvesta UK IVA Help: http://myvesta.org.uk/programmes/myvesta_iva.html
Blog: http://creditdebtlife.com
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sonyse2t5

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Post by sonyse2t5 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:36 pm
Wow, So the Scots have a DAZ DMP scheme, we need this in the UK.

As for accepting 10p to the £.....Deed of trustees -try to get MBNA and NR to accept that in the UK?
 
 

OPTIMIST12

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Post by OPTIMIST12 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:37 am
Steve -

The articles you linked make interesting reading but I think the tone of the "Who Am I" article is a little one-sided. I agree that banks splash credit facilities around far too easily but we must remember that credit is for adults aged 18 and over only and in some cases people are contributory to their downfall by irresponsible borrowing. No doubt about it - the banks should have much stricter controls on lending and in many cases people fall into arrears through circumstances beyond their control. BUT I would guess to the majority of their customers who do not face problems the banks provide a valuable service and at the end of the day the banks are in business to make money!!!

Not wishing to be controversial - I am in an IVA myself and will always be grateful for this opportunity to escape from financial despair - but it would be great if some people from the financial institutions - and also CCCS - could make use of this forum to put their side of things. I am sure that they must read it!!!!
47 months completed - 13 months to go.
 
 

Myvesta-Steve

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Post by Myvesta-Steve » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:40 am
I completely agree. Nobody put a gun to anyone’s head and made them take out credit. I enjoy using credit responsibly. I also support and agree that banks are entities that are supposed to make a profit and money. I’m not against making a profit at all. Profit is what keeps all groups in business, including charities.

But doesn’t being in business come with responsibilities also? Is it OK to perpetuate business at all costs or do we draw a line at some point and say that selling credit comes with some responsibilities for treating people that get into trouble with individual care or say that we simply want banks to honour the Banking Code duties that they say they do?

We frown upon the factory that dumps toxic waste into clear waters as the result of production, why should we not frown on any creditor that extends credit, seemingly at abandon, and dumps those, for whatever reason, those that can’t pay into financial ruin because they could not meet the creditors arbitrary hurdle rate to repay in times of trouble.

I’m not suggesting that there should not be consequences. Let there be consequences. But maybe those consequences should be no or restricted access to future credit, a bad credit report, higher interest rates, or some other punishment. What I struggle with is working with people every day that want to repay but who are turned away from fair, reasonable or sustainable repayment plans because a creditor “wants” £100 more per month even though it has been demonstrated that it is not sustainable.

Is it fair that people wallow in DMPs that last decades or that creditors have been known to back bill DMP clients for interest once they finish making DMP payments? What time limit should be fair for informal debt repayment plans? Is it one year, five years or forever? For the IVA it has settled at around five years and there is enough research to support the psychological effect of the five year repayment. But we don’t need to get into hyperbolic discounting here.

The “Who Am I” piece is a work about introspection and I invite everyone to pause and ask themselves what values they hold dear. For me, I understand that cruelty happens but again, for me, it is my personal opinion that intentional cruelty should not be tolerated.

I guess what I feel is right is that financial solutions should be as readily available as credit to begin with. If credit is going to be passed out like water, in some cases, then limitations about who can or can’t have access to a DMP that does not last 50 years or arbitrarily excluded from access to an IVA, is not healthy. Otherwise, credit becomes a trap. And just for me, in my humble opinion, that’s not cool.
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OPTIMIST12

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Post by OPTIMIST12 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:10 am
Certainly the banks must take a share of the blame. In my case I eventually came to the point where I was "living" off credit card cash advances. As I was going through the "bury your head in the sand" stage I let this continue for far too long and was finally derailed when the APR for cash advances on many of my accounts suddenly shot up from 16 - 17% to 24 or even 27%. In a way that was a good thing as it finally brought things home to me but there again it must also have meant that the banks realised I was in difficulty and so does not really seem as if they were keen on helping resolve things. One or two did take the trouble to actually reduce my credit limits and told me that they were doing this having reviewed the use of my accounts - I thought that at least showed some desire on their part to prove to me that I had a problem!
47 months completed - 13 months to go.
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