And what would happen if I did 'run away'?

[tomrio]

Hi
Like many I have got myself into a bit of a situation and accumulated rather large debts in loans and credit cards. After looking into info about IVAs was feeling hopeful as this seemed a good solution for me. A DMP of 15 - 20 years is just too long. My fiancee is Brazilian and we plan to live there once married. But 5 years is a lot more reasonable especially as she will be studying in Italy for 3-4 years.
However I have just found out that an IVA application could be refused as Northern Rock is one of my largest creditors - about 30-40% I think - one organisation has told me that they wouldn't even put an application in for me for this reason.
Though I want to face up to my mistakes and pay back what I can this news makes me just want to run off to Italy.
Is it true about the likliehood of refusal? And what would happen if I did 'run away'?

[MelanieGiles]

Hi tomrio and welcome to the forum

Northern Rock do not reject anything like the number of IVA proposals some IPs claim, and I personally do not have a problem in getting IVAs accepted - providing they meet sensible criteria. You will need to consider running the IVA over six years, but if you are prepared to do this it could be an ideal solution for you.

I suggest that you take advice directly from an insolvency practitioner in this regard.

[J-DOUBLEYA]

I think that Mel knows full well that Northern Rock refuse most IVA's. Perhaps Mel has a bit nmore success with this companies because she actually does with her proposals, what her professional colleagues dont, who knows ?

The rest of the Industry concur that Northern Rock refuse almost all of the proposals put to them.

As for running away, well , with the attitude of NR i would not blame you and frankly, unethical as this may seem, if you have no UK assets there is very little that your creditors can actually do to recover the money owed, especially in Brazil !

[MelanieGiles]

You may be right about the industry as a whole - and I could not comment about other firms, only my own, and personally I find Northern Rock very sensible and commercial to deal with.

What statistics are you relying on JW, and would you class your "almost all" at say 90%? If so, why do you think that they do reject so many - and what do you think happens to the people they have turned down?

[barbara.worthington]

melanie has proposed our iva for us and our meeting is on the 28th

my husbands main creditor is northern rock - i am sure melanie would not be putting the proposal forward if she did not think it stood a good chance of going through - as she said it will be over 6 years if it is accepted

it would not do you any harm contacting melanie and her team for advice - we have found the service faultless, non judgemental, honest and professional

good luck with whatever you decide

barb x

[Soulgrowth]

Although I do think that Melanie is somewhat an exception to the rule ... showing a fair bit more dedication and commitment to her clients than most IPs.

Debbie

[Adam Davies]

Hi
This forum is about finding a solution to your debt problem,ethically and responsibly.We do not support the notion of running away from money that is owed.
If an IVA is unsuitabe then draw a line under your debt problems with bankruptcy
Regards

[Soulgrowth]

I would agree with Andy ... running away merely leaves things 'undone'. It is much better psychologicaccly and emotionally to have a clear, fresh start.

Debbie

[chris.g]

I can understand how the Rio idea seems tempting though. Before the debt free route is decided on it's a very worrying and desperate time.
As Andy and Debbie say, it's much better to get it sorted and draw a line under it. That way it will not come back to haunt you.
If your IVA proposal is refused, br is always an option. That way, all your debts will have been dealt with and you can bask in the Brazilian sun with a free conscience.....
Good luck tomrio, xx

[Soulgrowth]

And send us all a postcard! [:)]

Debbie

[J-DOUBLEYA]

If you 'run away' to Rio, what can the creditors actually do ? zilch, zippo, el nilo ! If you have no intention of returning to the UK, unethical as it may seem, so what ? Life is all about choices, some choose to pay , some choose to go bankrupt others do nothing.

Mel - I am not going to split hairs about NR, you are well aware,I am quite sure,of the stance that NR take with IVA's. The fact has been well documented and widely reported in the press on a number of occasions. Representations have been made by a number of debt help charities and IP's.
How you get the success you claim is beyond me but i salute you ! NR have been quoted as saying they do not refuse ALL IVA's perhaps they are relying on yours to offset the many whingers like myself ? they also are quoted as saying that they are sympathetic to the Miners !

Andy - I am not advocating that running away is an ethical solution but you have to admit the option exists and people choose to take this route. If a debt is statute barred, morally you should pay but legally you do not. I work with people in debt daily and frankly, If someone wants to disappear to the great blue yonder such as Brazil, well Good for them I say !

[Reviva UK]

That is certainly an option but surely it would give you more peace of mind to put it to bed and have the peace of mind to know that there is nothing to be frightened about because you have sorted out the problem properly.

Word of caution:-

I have 6 clients currently overseas. 3 of whom went away to avoid their creditors and were hoping for the 6 year ruling. Their situation has now changed and they want to come back. Whilst we all moan about the UK at times we do provide the following

housing benefit
Council tax benefit
working tax credit
family tax credit
child benefit
etc etc etc etc

so after trying it abroad sometimes it is actually not too bad here. The last thing you need is the uncertainty of coming back to an unknown reception.

I have also previously had a client who went to work in Mexico and BMW finance found them and pursued them for 25k .

I am not saying that you have to pay your debts as you clearly can use the law to protect you - BUT while running away is attractive it is not the proper way of dealing with the problem.

Just some thoughts.

[J-DOUBLEYA]

surely the creditor would have to know where in the world you are to even have a chance at collection and of course there has to be reciprocal agreements in place to be in with a chance of transfering the jurisdiction of the debt to enforce !

I agree with your caution but it is the debtors choice at the end of the day.

[Adam Davies]

Hi J-DOUBLEYA
You are correct,people have a choice to tackle their debt or not and I have no problem with anyone who chooses to 'run' away,stress and the general quality of life can simply be to much for some.
My point is that on this forum we[people in the insolvency business]must not answer questions relating to this option,even though it exists,as some people will look to avoid their debt obligations and I do not want the forum to be party to that.
Regards

[Reviva UK]

debtors choice - agreed

the 6 year rule doesn't require juristiction - just requires that they have contacted you - or made attempts to - during the period. Therefore they can clearly obtain judgement in your absence meaning that things won't just go away.

Amazing how sometimes they send a debt collector ( No legal authority round) only to find that a neighbour or flat sharere etc hapily tells them that they have gone to spain etc.

The world is a small place now and that I find facinating and scarely.