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DapplesES

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Post by DapplesES » Fri May 20, 2022 8:58 am
Hi All,
My apologies if a version of this post has already appeared as I tried posting yesterday but not sure if it uploaded!
A little background - I’m currently 55 and live in Spain. I’ve been on an IVA with Iva.org since last December.
At the time of setting up my IVA I informed them of my ongoing health problems, basically I had retired early partly to a degenerative back condition and at time of application I had been unable to walk for 6 months. Due to my age, health, location in Spain and the possible difficulties in releasing equity from our property in the future, at the time little or no equity as it had only been purchased the year before,it was agreed that my IVA would be over 6 years and the property would be excluded from the IVA.
The property I currently live in is a cave house, high on a step hillside in a small village in rural Granada. I am confined to living on the ground floor, however, even the ground floor has different levels between rooms and so I have to crawl around as my wheelchair can’t be used. I can’t climb the stairs to the kitchen or to use the only outside space our house has. Even leaving the property I have to crawl out of the house onto the cobblestone street to gain access to the car! Now after a year of this it is having a detrimental effect on the health of me and my wife who basically has to do everything for me!
We have decided that moving to a property with a level access for my wheelchair and a level ground floor is the best option. We have found a suitable place and want to sell to buy. When we sell our property and buy the other we could have around 10k as the second property is on the market for around 10k cheaper! The property will need work to make it suitable for invalid use, it needs a bathroom fitted downstairs and the kitchen(also on ground floor)renovated for easier use by me.
My question is will my IVA company expect me to pay my share of the money raised after selling/buying into my IVA even though my property is excluded or are there mechanisms to allow for exceptional circumstances that would allow me to keep the money needed to do the work?
My apologies for the long message.

DapplesES

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Post by DapplesES » Fri May 20, 2022 9:12 am
Just to clarify, when I said I took early retirement partly because of my health it was the fact I was taking increasingly strong medication for pain relief that was starting to affect my job as a train driver. I was able to walk when I retired it was a fall while in Spain that resulted in my present condition. Before that I was relatively fit and mobile!

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Fri May 20, 2022 9:31 am
I am so sorry to hear of your problems - are you likely to make a full recovery? Although you have not been in your IVA long it maybe worth asking if they will accept payments to date - a long shot I appreciate. Otherwise explain to the company that you will need to move and also make adaptions to another property due to your disablement so will need money to pay for that.
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Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Fri May 20, 2022 11:53 am
You can discuss your situation with your IP ( try to do everything in writing and / or get written confirmation of anything done / agreed verbally ). Hopefully he/ she will agree to allow you to use any excess from the sale to refit your new home. My biggest worry is how you will be able to finance the deal to get a new mortgage.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
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DapplesES

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Post by DapplesES » Fri May 20, 2022 12:08 pm
Thank you Kallis, at present I don’t know if I will recover. There is extensive nerve damage to my lower legs and feet but at present I’m receiving physio to help mobility. Time will tell! I will do as you suggest and talk to the company.

DapplesES

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Post by DapplesES » Fri May 20, 2022 12:12 pm
Foggy thank you for the good advice. I won’t however be looking for a mortgage as the sale of my present property will provide sufficient funds to buy the next one which is cheaper than the value of our current property. My main concern was about selling my excluded property and any money left over.

DapplesES

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Post by DapplesES » Mon May 30, 2022 3:51 pm
I have finally received this reply from IVA.org

I understand and sympathise with your current situation. I see that moving house would benefit your health requirements which is extremely important.

Whilst your property has been excluded from the arrangement, at the point of sale this would then turn into a cash asset and would fall under the windfall clause. We would be obligated to contact all of your creditors to ask for their permission for you to sell your property and purchase a more suitable one.

Would it be possible to email across the following information:-

Evidence of property sale price

Evidence of new property sale price

Is this information correct as my current IVA is for 6 years in lieu of equity!
While I can show the company advertised sale price of my property and the advertised sale price of suitable properties we are looking to buy, these prices do not necessarily reflect the actual prices of the sales. We started at a higher price, knowing we will be knocked down, so that we could achieve the amount we feel we will need for work on the property we buy after transaction fees in respect of selling and buying in Spain which are more than the UK!
Also they state that they will have to ask my creditors for permission for me to sell and buy! Why? It’s not the actual properties that’s the issue it’s the money leftover once both transactions are completed. Surely they can’t block my moving? My health is deteriorating daily both physical and mental!! What %age of my half of monies resulting from the property sales would I be obligated to hand over? Is there no mechanism to take into account health issues of people like me?

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Mon May 30, 2022 5:18 pm
I am afraid that their interpretation is probably correct -- The property is excluded, however any cash released from it's sale would not be and it will fall to the sympathies of IP and creditors as to how they would treat the issue.

I would be inclined to treat the negotiations as a 'what if' situation, in that, if the creditors agree to let you retain monies, only then would you proceed with the sale (which might not even materialise). If they refused (or the sale did not go through) then you would continue with the IVA as it stands (this is a bargaining position, even if not realistic). Make it clear that you are working on that basis at this time.

When providing figures, state that sales often go through at XX% below listing prices ( Does Spain have any 'Rightmove' type websites that provide actual sales prices?) and include deductions from the equity to cover sales / purchase fees and removal costs as well as essential renovations / adaptations.

I am not aware of any formal mechanism to cover situations such as this nor of the existence of any mediation mechanisms.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

DapplesES

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Post by DapplesES » Mon May 30, 2022 6:50 pm
Thanks once again foggy,
That's made me think! There is no Rightmove/Zoopla property sale searches in Spain due to privacy laws. However I could ask my local estate agent for a ball park figure. He would be helpful as we bought originally from him and will probably do so again! Not many estate agents specialising in Cave houses.
If the sum of money from my half of our property sale was enough to pay my IVA off would I be able to do so using a windfall and also would the creditors expect me to pay much more than the £7200 they would have gotten from the 6 year term of my IVA. I have only been in it since last December. If they would except a f&f payment in the form lump sum I would be then free to use whatever money left over for the work needed at the new property.

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Mon May 30, 2022 7:01 pm
I have seen people negotiate a F&F payment of the remaining scheduled payments from the sale of a house. Again these offers have been initially framed as an "if the creditors will accept this sum in full and final payment of the IVA then I will proceed with selling. If not, I will not sell and the IVA continues as is." Of course, this will depend on the will of your own IP and creditors.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

DapplesES

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Post by DapplesES » Mon May 30, 2022 8:00 pm
That may be worth considering if my wife agrees and my IP thinks it’s reasonable. However, I wouldn’t want to be paying much more then the £7200 the IVA was set up in order to payback. Doing some top of my head figures, even if I offered to pay the balance after sale fees and works needed, I don’t think it would result in any greater figure.

luluj

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Post by luluj » Mon May 30, 2022 8:23 pm
Late to the conversation sorry. Just wanted to wish you well and hope your creditors/ IP look favourably to ensure this us concluded at the earliest opportunity for you.
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DapplesES

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Post by DapplesES » Tue May 31, 2022 1:49 pm
Thank you Luluj it’s so encouraging to hear from so many supportive people!
It would to great to think that I could be able to move, adapt my new property and settle Iva all at the same time!
My main worry is how to approach my IP as by now it would fairly obvious to them that I am keen to move. If I try to adopt a position of seemingly indifference, whereby I claim I will not sell without creditors agreement in principle to accepting my f&f payment, they will know it’s a bluff given that I’ve been very open and frank for the reason behind the sale.
Obviously without selling there will be no f&f offer but I can’t sell if they are likely to want more money than the approximate £7k I would be offering. The other complication is that I have no idea at present when I would be able to make the offer! Also once money is available then it means I have sold one property and I have a need to buy the next so therefore I would be committed to spending money which conceivably they could have a claim to!

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Tue May 31, 2022 2:14 pm
This is why you need confirmation, one way or another, before you can actually proceed. Not selling if they refuse is not a bluff, as, if they insist on having too much you would be unable to purchase a new property, so would not be selling !
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

DapplesES

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Post by DapplesES » Tue May 31, 2022 4:05 pm
Thanks Foggy,
I will have to bite the bullet and write to my IP. In your experience is it likely that my creditors would ask for more money than the Iva would have given them over it’s full course? Basically I’m 6 months into my iva, my total debt is just under £23500 and the Iva is paying £7200 over 6 yrs. my £100 monthly payments are in all likelihood not going to increase by any significant amount as I’m on a pension and my wife doesn’t work either. Also at the time of setting up my iva my income figure was slightly inflated in my proposal, I didn’t notice until reviewing my docs recently, only by approx £80 per 4 weeks. I think it was an error in conversion from €-£ so my next review may reduce my payment.
The only possible increase could come from a PIP claim of which I would disclose if successful. One other noteworthy item in my iva is that my health issues are specifically listed in the proposal in the vulnerability section. Whether that would hold sway with the creditors I have no way of knowing.
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